Do you lose concealment if you advance into an in-season rice paddy?

John Fedoriw

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Hi gents,

I find E8 confusing. I think you may retain concealment when advancing into a paddy...but due to banks being like OG (actually even more dangerous with the Hazardous Move penalties) my opponent and myself are not sure. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
John
 

Eagle4ty

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An In Season Paddy is concealment terrain so during an Advance you should be able to retain concealment as condition "B" of the A12.121 CONCEALMENT LOSS/GAIN CHART would not pertain for concealment loss [EXC: if you chose to remain above the Bank counter & even then I'm not sure because the condition is entering a concealment terrain hex]. NOTE: You are not moving but Advancing so HAZ MOVE shouldn't apply.
 

nekengren2

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If I advanced ON THE BANKS in an In Season Rice Paddy hex adjacent to enemy would I remain Concealed?
Seems so reading the rules but seems rather strange since they are subject to Hazardous Movement.
 

klasmalmstrom

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IMO, being engaged in something that incurs the Hazardous Movement DRM, could/should be considered "engaging in a concealment-loss activity ". Like being above a Panji counter is (spelled out in G9.53).

I think a case can be made that it is:
A4.62:
"Certain activities are so dangerous that they automatically incur a -2 IFT DRM to any attacks against units so engaged regardless of fire phase until they are pinned (if subject to Pin results)..."

A12.141:
"Any other activity which a concealed unit engages in [EXC: operation of radio/field phone; taking a PAATC or Set DC NTC; dropping/attempted repair of a SW/Gun; Spotting; and application of a leadership modifier to another concealed unit’s PAATC (EXC: 12.41)] causes loss of concealment if that unit is currently in the LOS and within 16 hexes of a Good Order enemy ground unit. ..."
 

MajorDomo

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If a unit advances into s Foxhole in open ground, it would lose concealment if in LOS...

I would think the same should hold for an advance into an in season paddy as the bank is OG.

But this is ASL.
 

ibncalb

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If I advanced ON THE BANKS......
Good question. The bank rules specify that a bank counter does not create another location. So, whilst happy to be proved wrong, I think you do not lose ? during the aph as you're still considered in a paddy location.
 

nekengren2

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If I am moving Rice Paddy Interior to Rice Paddy Interior.....................
Can the enemy fire at my unit "crossing the Banks"?????????????

After reviewing the rules I think we have been playing this wrong.
8.2102 If the unit is currently IN a paddy or in a non-paddy hex, it may enter
directly INTO an adjacent paddy hex


  1. No shot at the unit "crossing the Banks" is allowed.
  2. The InSeasonRicePaddy would let you retain Concealment also if you don't end a MF expenditure ONtheBanks.
  3. It follows that Advance into the InSeasonRicePaddy retains Concealment.
 

ibncalb

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Correct. You only suffer from bank penalties if you choose to go onto a bank counter.
 

John Fedoriw

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After reviewing the rules I think we have been playing this wrong.
8.2102 If the unit is currently IN a paddy or in a non-paddy hex, it may enter
directly INTO an adjacent paddy hex
Gotta be careful on this one though because in Korea..." Every hexside of a paddy field hex is a bank hexside (G8.21) [EXC: 1.21]. " (W1.2)
 

nekengren2

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Gotta be careful on this one though because in Korea..." Every hexside of a paddy field hex is a bank hexside (G8.21) [EXC: 1.21]. " (W1.2)
so...........shouldn't change these movement discussions. Pay the MF per 8.2103 and you were never ON THE BANKS.

8.2103 If the unit is currently IN a paddy, it may directly enter an adjacent
non-paddy hex. The normal cost for this is one MF/MP [EXC: three MP for
a cycle] to cross that bank hexside plus the COT of the non-paddy hex. Mud
MF/MP can also apply if EC are Mud.


Most hexside are already BANKS.
8.1 Rice paddies (hereafter referred to as paddies) are a terrain feature of
Overlay 3 and of each overlay whose ID is prefixed by “RP”. A paddy consists
of two parts: the interior, which is brownish-green on the overlay; and
the banks, which are the narrow Open-Ground-color areas along the hexsides
of that hex.

The oJ4/oK5 hexside has NO BANKS normal rules
KW there are BANKS. That is the only difference.

21461
 
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