Do you lose concealment if you advance into an in-season rice paddy?

John Fedoriw

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Messages
338
Reaction score
119
Location
Kitchener, ON
Country
llCanada
Hi gents,

I find E8 confusing. I think you may retain concealment when advancing into a paddy...but due to banks being like OG (actually even more dangerous with the Hazardous Move penalties) my opponent and myself are not sure. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
John
 

Eagle4ty

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
6,398
Reaction score
4,420
Location
Eau Claire, Wi
Country
llUnited States
An In Season Paddy is concealment terrain so during an Advance you should be able to retain concealment as condition "B" of the A12.121 CONCEALMENT LOSS/GAIN CHART would not pertain for concealment loss [EXC: if you chose to remain above the Bank counter & even then I'm not sure because the condition is entering a concealment terrain hex]. NOTE: You are not moving but Advancing so HAZ MOVE shouldn't apply.
 

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
217
Reaction score
133
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
If I advanced ON THE BANKS in an In Season Rice Paddy hex adjacent to enemy would I remain Concealed?
Seems so reading the rules but seems rather strange since they are subject to Hazardous Movement.
 

klasmalmstrom

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
19,056
Reaction score
6,158
Location
Sweden
Country
llSweden
IMO, being engaged in something that incurs the Hazardous Movement DRM, could/should be considered "engaging in a concealment-loss activity ". Like being above a Panji counter is (spelled out in G9.53).

I think a case can be made that it is:
A4.62:
"Certain activities are so dangerous that they automatically incur a -2 IFT DRM to any attacks against units so engaged regardless of fire phase until they are pinned (if subject to Pin results)..."

A12.141:
"Any other activity which a concealed unit engages in [EXC: operation of radio/field phone; taking a PAATC or Set DC NTC; dropping/attempted repair of a SW/Gun; Spotting; and application of a leadership modifier to another concealed unit’s PAATC (EXC: 12.41)] causes loss of concealment if that unit is currently in the LOS and within 16 hexes of a Good Order enemy ground unit. ..."
 

MajorDomo

DM? Chuck H2O in his face
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
3,139
Reaction score
952
Location
Fluid
Country
llUnited States
If a unit advances into s Foxhole in open ground, it would lose concealment if in LOS...

I would think the same should hold for an advance into an in season paddy as the bank is OG.

But this is ASL.
 

ibncalb

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
667
Reaction score
414
Location
La Turballe
Country
llFrance
If I advanced ON THE BANKS......
Good question. The bank rules specify that a bank counter does not create another location. So, whilst happy to be proved wrong, I think you do not lose ? during the aph as you're still considered in a paddy location.
 

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
217
Reaction score
133
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
If I am moving Rice Paddy Interior to Rice Paddy Interior.....................
Can the enemy fire at my unit "crossing the Banks"?????????????

After reviewing the rules I think we have been playing this wrong.
8.2102 If the unit is currently IN a paddy or in a non-paddy hex, it may enter
directly INTO an adjacent paddy hex


  1. No shot at the unit "crossing the Banks" is allowed.
  2. The InSeasonRicePaddy would let you retain Concealment also if you don't end a MF expenditure ONtheBanks.
  3. It follows that Advance into the InSeasonRicePaddy retains Concealment.
 

ibncalb

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
667
Reaction score
414
Location
La Turballe
Country
llFrance
Correct. You only suffer from bank penalties if you choose to go onto a bank counter.
 

John Fedoriw

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Messages
338
Reaction score
119
Location
Kitchener, ON
Country
llCanada
After reviewing the rules I think we have been playing this wrong.
8.2102 If the unit is currently IN a paddy or in a non-paddy hex, it may enter
directly INTO an adjacent paddy hex
Gotta be careful on this one though because in Korea..." Every hexside of a paddy field hex is a bank hexside (G8.21) [EXC: 1.21]. " (W1.2)
 

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
217
Reaction score
133
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
Gotta be careful on this one though because in Korea..." Every hexside of a paddy field hex is a bank hexside (G8.21) [EXC: 1.21]. " (W1.2)
so...........shouldn't change these movement discussions. Pay the MF per 8.2103 and you were never ON THE BANKS.

8.2103 If the unit is currently IN a paddy, it may directly enter an adjacent
non-paddy hex. The normal cost for this is one MF/MP [EXC: three MP for
a cycle] to cross that bank hexside plus the COT of the non-paddy hex. Mud
MF/MP can also apply if EC are Mud.


Most hexside are already BANKS.
8.1 Rice paddies (hereafter referred to as paddies) are a terrain feature of
Overlay 3 and of each overlay whose ID is prefixed by “RP”. A paddy consists
of two parts: the interior, which is brownish-green on the overlay; and
the banks, which are the narrow Open-Ground-color areas along the hexsides
of that hex.

The oJ4/oK5 hexside has NO BANKS normal rules
KW there are BANKS. That is the only difference.

21461
 
Top