Do you feel your respective Nationality is Represented Well?

[Hutch]

I have always felt that Craig Poseys' "A Nation of Workers" in the 89 Annual explained the morale issue.

One other point was that the Marines were not drafted as the Army was in WWII, and most of the "smarter" army members went to the USAAF.

 

[ON TOP ASL]

For example, I hate the fact that American Para Troopers have a seven moral level, but thats life in the big city I guess.

Yes, they should have 6 morale as the rest of majority US troops. :laugh:

 

[Flarvin]

Uh, right. They were so much braver than the G.I.s at Salerno and Omaha Beach. :hmmm:

Compared to Tarawa they were cake walks.
But if I was designing a beach assault scenario for Salerno or Omaha Beach I would add a SSR that increased the US MMC unbroken morale by one.

Flarvin

 

[sswann]

Compared to Tarawa they were cake walks.
But if I was designing a beach assault scenario for Salerno or Omaha Beach I would add a SSR that increased the US MMC unbroken morale by one.

Flarvin

Not required as all Seaborne Assault Inf/Cav is automatically Fanatic [G14.32].

Steve

 

[sswann]

While Normandy and Tarawa had close to the same number of casualties, it should be remembered that at Tarawa they were mostly from just 2 regiments and at Normandy they were from mostly 2 divisions.

SS

 

[Corporal Kindel]

I have always felt that Craig Poseys' "A Nation of Workers" in the 89 Annual explained the morale issue.

One other point was that the Marines were not drafted as the Army was in WWII, and most of the "smarter" army members went to the USAAF.

Good point. Another interesting battle that emphasizes the differences between Marine Corps and Army is the battle of Saipan. An army division was sandwhiched between two Marine divisions and did considerably worse than the Marines (same amount of opposition) in terms of timely gains of real estate. I think this battle really emphasizes the difference between Army & Marine approaches to combat.

 

[synicbast]

While Normandy and Tarawa had close to the same number of casualties, it should be remembered that at Tarawa they were mostly from just 2 regiments and at Normandy they were from mostly 2 divisions.

SS

Might want to remember that the casualties at Sword and Juno weren't that light either...also there were significant naval personnel lossses that brought the Utah beach losses very close to the total at Omaha...

 

[sswann]

Just a point of tradition. The Marine Corps (at least up to my day) refused to use the word 'retreat'... even at evening colors, the national standard was 'retired'. In the sixties, we were not given a 'fall back' or reorganization point... that activity was done 'on the line'.

SS

 

[Eduardoh]

Hmm...I think the brazillians werent represented yet in ASL, or were they!?

 

[Psycho]

Hmm...I think the brazillians werent represented yet in ASL, or were they!?

IIRC they were equipped with American stuff and use US counters. There is at least one scenario dealing with the Brazilian division in Italy.

 

[Tater]

Hmm...I think the brazillians werent represented yet in ASL, or were they!?

Yes, there is a scenario that has Brazilian troops...uhm, they use US Army counters.

 

[Pitman]

Compared to Tarawa they were cake walks.
But if I was designing a beach assault scenario for Salerno or Omaha Beach I would add a SSR that increased the US MMC unbroken morale by one.

Flarvin

Re your first point, you are wrong.

Re your second point, that's the issue, but you have it backwards. Assuming base elite morale for US Army remains 7, USMC should have 7 morale, but have it raised to 8 for amphibious invasions.

 

[Pitman]

Hmm...I think the brazillians werent represented yet in ASL, or were they!?

The Brazilian forces were equipped by the US, so ASL typically uses US counters to represent them. I say "typically," but there may only be one Brazilian scenario.

I recently purchased the official history of this division, so hopefully there will be some more in the near future.

 

[Pitman]

Good point. Another interesting battle that emphasizes the differences between Marine Corps and Army is the battle of Saipan. An army division was sandwhiched between two Marine divisions and did considerably worse than the Marines (same amount of opposition) in terms of timely gains of real estate. I think this battle really emphasizes the difference between Army & Marine approaches to combat.

You cannot generalize from one data point. That situation at Saipan--in which, by the way, much of its lack of "timeliness" resulted from being ordered to clear out an area that contained far more Japanese than they were told was there--is in any case not representative of anything.

 

[Pitman]

While Normandy and Tarawa had close to the same number of casualties, it should be remembered that at Tarawa they were mostly from just 2 regiments and at Normandy they were from mostly 2 divisions.

SS

You mean "portions of two divisions," I'm sure. And those portions suffered their casualties in one day of fighting, as opposed to the three days of fighting at Tarawa.

 

[Hutch]

Hmm...I think the Brazillians weren't represented yet in ASL, or were they!?

As has been quoted above, they are represented in one scenario.

ASL A67 Monte Castello 12 Dec 44 Gaggio Montano, Italy found in 93b Annual.

 

[sswann]

You mean "portions of two divisions," I'm sure. And those portions suffered their casualties in one day of fighting, as opposed to the three days of fighting at Tarawa.

1. Portions vs mostly... about the same thing.
2. Having known several Tarawa USMC Veterans (metal winners) most (90%) of their casualties were on the 1st day.

 

[Jim McLeod]

Uh, right. They were so much braver than the G.I.s at Salerno and Omaha Beach. :hmmm:

Mark,

I neglected to take into account your relative inexperience with ASL and lack of understanding in how ASL is meant to depict WWII infantry combat tactics.

As others have informed you, Army and Marine infantry were trained in different manners as their tasks, although quite similar in general, differed in one significant aspect.

Marines are trained to be very aggressive while Army infantry are trained to take a more thorough and cautious approach on the attack.

This is not to say that a soldier in the Army was any more or less brave than a Marine. The difference is that a Marine is trained to be more aggressive.

Do you see the difference?

Now, how to translate this aggressivness into ASL terms.

Many players, yourself included it would seem, equate morale levels with courage. This is a mistake. Many players play 8 ML units very cautiously. Such 8 ML troops are not very 'brave' now are they. However, that 8 ML does not represent bravery or courage. The ML of 8 encourages the player to use such units in an agressive manner.

In ASL, in order to abstractly represent the aggressive nature of Marine units, Marine MMC are given a ML of 8.

Regular Army units were trained to be more thorough and cautious in attacking the enemy, therefore, they are given a ML of 6.

In both cases the ML in no way represent the 'courage' or 'bravery' of the soldiers represented. In ASL, the dice represent that aspect of a soldiers nature.






=Jim=

 

[Robin Reeve]

It seems that "your respective Nationality" is to be equated as "your American nationality" most of the time, here...
And, more precisely : is your nationality Marines or Infantry ?

 

[Bazounga]

Yes, there is a scenario that has Brazilian troops...uhm, they use US Army counters.

After all they ARE American, continentally speaking, it is.:cheeky:
And for the French, well, we did lose the war in '40, didn't we ? So I guess the game is fair, as long as Free French are represented by english troops.