DM website update report #3: The CH Conundrum

[Gordon]

I'ts a famous SCOTTISH expression

That'll be the name of my next "bagpipe" band.

 

[footsteps]

If "Great Britain" is England, Scotland, and Wales, what's "So-so Britain"?

Worcester

 

[RobZagnut]

I do buy some CH stuff. Usually something like Guerra Civil/Condor Legion that isn’t produced by another ASL producer. I used Mark’s write ups to buy Condor Legion (better counters and scenario graphics) and also to pass on the next version which was the same module split into two pieces. I also bought the new Spanish Civil War Nationality Sets because I liked the looks of the new counters. Again I would happily buy a Spanish Civil War product from MMP, BFP, LFT etc but those don’t yet exist. Same goes for the Arab-Israeli War stuff. If you don’t want to read Mark’s write ups of CH products then just walk on by. As for me, I will read them and make a decision.

I'm curious how you get around the ethics of buying from a company that stole scenarios from Time On Target and published them? Or when Scott Holst submitted 7 scenarios and was told the pack needed eight scenarios. But, when Holst said he only had seven, the publisher took one of the seven, copied it, changed a few units, changed the boards and without playtesting… viola! The missing eighth scenario!!!

Do you really need A Spanish Civil War product THAT bad that you are willing to overlook the ethics and practices of the company?

 

[Alan Hume]

He said British, not English. Pssstt.....don't look now, but the Scots are all British.

Heh,heh,heh for now at least?

 

[Alan Hume]

Heh,heh,heh for now at least?

But seriously, I was just trying to point out that the term comes from us Scots is all

 

[Blackcloud6]

One oppresses the other.

One always demands to be on top.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

All depends upon how you use the term British.

If you are using the term as a geographical location label then the British Isles covers all Britain, Ireland, Mann and a multitude of small islands. Britain or Great Britain only covers the contiguous land mass of England, Scotland and Wales.

If you are using British as a cultural, ethnic or linguistic label then that covers only Wales, Cornwall and possibly Brittany (Britons who fled to France) as these were the areas of Britain that continued the use of the P-Celtic Brittonic languages into at least early modern times (1500+). The P-Celtic Pictish and Stratclyde Brittonic of what is modern Scotland had by then been replaced by the Q-Celtic Scots variant of Gaelic imported from Ireland. While Scots Gaelic took most of its features, like vocabulary, from Irish Gaelic it retained many grammatical elements from its inhabitants earlier Brittonic/Pictish languages.

Linguists will have a good bar fight as to whether the Insular Celtic P-Q (eg. Irish "mac" = son, vs Welsh "(m)ap") split is a descendant of the Continental Celtic P-Q split or was a subsequent independent Insular development. By Roman times most of the Continental Celtic languages seem to have been of the P form with the exception of some areas of Spain using the likes Gallaecian or Celtiberian which seem to have been Q-Celtic languages. Being the furtherest westward from the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) heartland the Q-Celtic seems to be closer to PIE than the physically nearer P-Celtic branches. Why? An explanation could be the first to move still clung to the original PIE forms and due to isolation could not adopt later PIE innovations/developments, IE language changes originate more often from the core than the periphery.

While dismissed as mainly mythical with a little real orally transmitted history the "Lebor Gabála Érenn" aka "Book Of Invasions" suggests that the last major wave of Celtic invasion of Ireland originated in NW Spain, That would match the Continental P-Q (most vs Spain) split to the Insular P-Q (Britain vs Ireland) split in effect at around 0 CE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebor_Gabála_Érenn#Modern_criticism

The Celtic P-Q split has a parallel with the Italic languages of the same era with Latin being a Q-Italic and Osco-Umbrian being a P-Italic languages.

Oh, by the way, all Celtic "C"s are spoken as a "K". So "Celtic" is pronounced "Keltic", despite a certain football club mispronouncing it as "Seltic".

Sorry, but had to get it off my chest! ?

 

[Alan Hume]

All depends upon how you use the term British.

If you are using the term as a geographical location label then the British Isles covers all Britain, Ireland, Mann and a multitude of small islands. Britain or Great Britain only covers the contiguous land mass of England, Scotland and Wales.

If you are using British as a cultural, ethnic or linguistic label then that covers only Wales, Cornwall and possibly Brittany (Britons who fled to France) as these were the areas of Britain that continued the use of the P-Celtic Brittonic languages into at least early modern times (1500+). The P-Celtic Pictish and Stratclyde Brittonic of what is modern Scotland had by then been replaced by the Q-Celtic Scots variant of Gaelic imported from Ireland. While Scots Gaelic took most of its features, like vocabulary, from Irish Gaelic it retained many grammatical elements from its inhabitants earlier Brittonic/Pictish languages.

Linguists will have a good bar fight as to whether the Insular Celtic P-Q (eg. Irish "mac" = son, vs Welsh "(m)ap") split is a descendant of the Continental Celtic P-Q split or was a subsequent independent Insular development. By Roman times most of the Continental Celtic languages seem to have been of the P form with the exception of some areas of Spain using the likes Gallaecian or Celtiberian which seem to have been Q-Celtic languages. Being the furtherest westward from the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) heartland the Q-Celtic seems to be closer to PIE than the physically nearer P-Celtic branches. Why? An explanation could be the first to move still clung to the original PIE forms and due to isolation could not adopt later PIE innovations/developments, IE language changes originate more often from the core than the periphery.

While dismissed as mainly mythical with a little real orally transmitted history the "Lebor Gabála Érenn" aka 2Book Of Invasions" suggests that the last major wave of Celtic invasion of Ireland originated in NW Spain, That would match the Continental P-Q (most vs Spain) split to the Insular P-Q (Britain vs Ireland) split at around 0 CE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebor_Gabála_Érenn#Modern_criticism

The Celtic P-Q split has a parallel with the Italic languages of the same era with Latin being a Q-Italic and Osco-Umbrian being a P-Italic languages.

Oh, by the way, all Celtic "C"s are spoken as a "K". So "Celtic" is pronounced "Keltic", despite a certain football club mispronouncing it as "Seltic".

Sorry, but had to get it off my chest! ?

Impressive knowledge there Paul, seriously?

 

[Paul M. Weir]

Impressive knowledge there Paul, seriously?

Why, thank you for that. However I can assure everybody that my knowledge in that area is little more than the faintest taste or whiff of language development that my curiosity reaped whilst skimming Wiki. Enough to satisfy my needs whilst I would be an utter and contemptable ignoramus at any language conference after party, never mind the conference itself.

 

[Hutch]

I believe the ASL Term is “Commonwealth” ?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

All depends upon how you use the term British.

I use it correctly, of course.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I believe the ASL Term is “Commonwealth” ?

NRBH but ISTR the ASLRB uses "British" to mean Commonwealth....

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Oh, by the way, all Celtic "C"s are spoken as a "K". So "Celtic" is pronounced "Keltic", despite a certain football club mispronouncing it as "Seltic".

American basketball team pronounces it the same way, but only because it was supposed to be pronounced that way - in English.

For years, English speakers pronounced the word Celtic with a soft "C" in all contexts. It’s how people in the United Kingdom said the word in the late 19th century when the famed Glasgow soccer team, Celtic [soft 'C'], was formed. It's also how people around here said it in 1947, when our now beloved basketball team debuted. This makes all the sense in the world, said linguist, author and educator James Harbeck.

"The word Celtics [with a soft 'C'] reflected the way that English approaches the letter 'C' before the letter 'E,'" he said.

Why We Pronounce 'Celtic' Music And Boston 'Celtics' Differently

It’s that time of the year when basketball takes center stage. The NCAA Final Four is set, and the NBA is in the final push toward the playoffs. It's the perfect time to take on this question from Ken Westhassel, a loyal listener from Medford, Massachusetts.

www.wgbh.org

 

[Paul M. Weir]

The English treatment of "C" is a "S" if followed by by "E" (cemetery) or "I" (city) or a "K" if followed by "A" (cat), "O" (country) or "U" (cuticle). The most unusual is "C" followed by a "H" (church) which is really neither. English is somewhat unusual in that regard. Russian Cyrillic "С" is always pronounced "S", though they have many "S" variants like "Щ" as in "ППЩ" or P-P-Sh/Pep-Pep-Shuh for the famous SMG.

The strongest historical clue to original Celtic "C" usage comes from Classical Greek accounts of interactions with peoples who described themselves as and written down in Greek as "Keltoi" not "Seltoi".

Yeah, English has a habit of mangling foreign words, lazy buggers.

 

[Alan Hume]

Why, thank you for that. However I can assure everybody that my knowledge in that area is little more than the faintest taste or whiff of language development that my curiosity reaped whilst skimming Wiki. Enough to satisfy my needs whilst I would be an utter and contemptable ignoramus at any language conference after party, never mind the conference itself.

You're too modest Paul really. I was impressed?

 

[Ganjulama]

Not quite the analogy you’re looking for.

What would people do if they went to the latest Star Wars movie or bought the latest John Grisham book and it was the exact same movie/book they had paid for 5 years earlier? Only the name was changed.

What do you think would happen to Disney

Disney is doing exactly this with their live action remakes.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Disney is doing exactly this with their live action remakes.

Not to mention Star Wars episode 7 which was a simple re-branding of the original. -- jim

 

[von Marwitz]

And Whiskers1123 systematically dislikes Mark's posts on CH.

He goes around disliking tons of people's posts.

I have noticed that as well for some time. Whiskers1123 is exceedingly trigger happy with Negative Reputation.
In fact, I cannot remember anyone since I signed up here in 2010 having used Negative Reputation to such an extent as he has over the course of the past couple of weeks. At least from my experience, this is beyond the habit and custom which generally seems to be adhered to in this forum.

Just sayin'...

von Marwitz

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I have noticed that as well for some time. Whiskers1123 is exceedingly trigger happy with Negative Reputation.
In fact, I cannot remember anyone since I signed up here in 2010 having used Negative Reputation to such an extent as he has over the course of the past couple of weeks. At least from my experience, this is beyond the habit and custom which generally seems to be adhered to in this forum.

Just sayin'...

von Marwitz

I've gotten one thumbs-down response from him, but he's given me many more positives (which made the negative stand out). I have no reason to assume anything but he genuinely disagreed with my post and felt that was a good way to indicate it.

For what it's worth, my suggestion to the new admins was to make thumbs down and angry reputation votes add positively to the reaction score of the recipient. Then it's kind of win-win. The recipient feels he has made a statement that someone else felt was important enough, interesting enough, thought-provoking enough to react to, and the person bestowing the thumbs-down is more inclined to do so out of a genuine desire to indicate displeasure or disagreement rather than just game the rankings.

I mean - it IS called a 'reaction' score, not a 'like' score. Reactions work both ways, so why not let the ranking reflect that?

 

[von Marwitz]

I mean - it IS called a 'reaction' score, not a 'like' score. Reactions work both ways, so why not let the ranking reflect that?

That is correct. I am making no judgement but merely remarking my observations with regard to the common custom around here.

von Marwitz