Disrupted unit & No Quarter & Banzai Charge

Discussion in 'ASL Rules & Errata' started by Jacometti, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:42 PM.

  1. Jacometti

    Jacometti Active Member

    Nov 3, 2008
    Halifax, NS
    Hi all,

    would like an answer on the following situation.

    A defending MMC is broken and Disrupted. The opposing (Japanese) side has declared No Quarter.

    The Japanese Banzai Charge and during the MPH enter the location of this MMC with a HS.

    What happens?

    Does the Disrupted MMC surrender instantly? Or is it eliminated ?

    If the Japanese HS refuses the surrender, can it continue its Banzai Charge?

    Thanks for your wisdom and rules references.
     
  2. Brian W

    Brian W Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 2003
    USA
    It routs if possible (see A20.3, Low Crawl is not an option nor is surrender); if not possible, it is eliminated for failure to rout (surrender is not an option, so use normal rout rules).
     
  3. Brian W

    Brian W Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 2003
    USA
    To follow up, the Japanese have already declared NQ per your first sentence; the enemy will never surrender after that. The only way to get prisoners would be going to CC Capture attempt.

    What is interesting is that disrupted units do not hind movement, so can the banzaing hs keep going right through the enemy? I think so, but I need to go flip my steak on the bbq. EDIT: (Steak is safe) Per A25.234 a HW Unit does not have to enter a Disrupted Enemy Unit's location. If it does . . . I'm not sure what happens. Klas will have to explain to me the last sentence of A25.234, "If the Location contains Disrupted/Unarmed enemy units, 19.12 and/or 20.54 apply at the end of the Impulse." Got to go eat steak.
     
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  4. klasmalmstrom

    klasmalmstrom Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2003
    Sweden
    A25.333:
    "If the Location contains Disrupted/Unarmed enemy units, 19.12 and/or 20.54 apply at the end of the Impulse."

    A19.12 applies vs a Disrupted unit, and A20.54 vs an Unarmed unit. So I think that at the end of the Impulse the Disrupted unit will Surrender if NQ is not in effect. Is it an Unarmed unit it is engaged in immediate CC at the end of the Impulse.

    A19.12:
    "...a Disrupted unit will surrender... ...during any phase it occupies the same Location as, a Good Order Known enemy Personnel unit not in Melee [EXC: No Quarter 20.3]."

    A20.54:
    "Unarmed units are not an obstacle to movement, and can be recaptured normally by CC or by any Infantry/Cavalry unit entering their Location and engaging in an immediate CC attack during the MPh."
     
  5. Eagle4ty

    Eagle4ty Active Member

    Nov 7, 2007
    Eau Claire, Wi
    To be more direct to the ultimate question asked if I understand his intent "If the Japanese HS refuses the surrender, can it continue its Banzai Charge?", the answer is found in A19.2 Disrupted units do not prevent enemy movement into or through their hex (4.14). This intimates that the unit will not immediately surrender because No Quarter is in effect by the Japanese and does not hinder its phased movement as Brian stated. As Klas indicated, all other situations are covered.
     
  6. von Marwitz

    von Marwitz Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2010
    Kraut Corner
  7. klasmalmstrom

    klasmalmstrom Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2003
    Sweden
    I think the Japanese unit must end is Banzai Charge if it has entered the Location of a broken, Disrupted unit because of A25.234.

    A25.234 ENDING THE HUMAN WAVE:
    "A unit remains a HW Unit (even if no longer adjacent to another HW Unit) until it is: eliminated; broken; out of MF at the end of an Impulse; at the start of an Impulse in a Location (or in a hex with a pillbox) containing an armed, Known enemy unit [EXC: if it uses the Impulse to move beneath an enemy-occupied Entrenchment counter]; or is a Guard due to capturing a SMC/Unarmed/Disrupted unit (25.233)..."

    At the start of the next Impulse it will be in a Location containing a Known enemy unit, and thus stops being a HW unit, and the same would actually be true if NQ as not in effect and the unit's Surrender was accepted.
     
  8. Brian W

    Brian W Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 2003
    USA
    That's what I was hinting at when I referred it to Klas. It seems strange to me that the disrupted unit would stop the banzai when it wouldn't normally stop movement, but I can understand it.

    On a related question, can the Japanese unit in particular (and any unit not held in Melee in a (only) disrupted enemy's location) Advance out of the location?
     
  9. klasmalmstrom

    klasmalmstrom Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2003
    Sweden
    I am thinking the Banzai units are out for blood - so they will stop as soon as they get close to an enemy. :)

    As long as the Japanese unit is not marked with a CC counter it can usually advance. IIRC, a Banzai unit that enters an enemy unit's Location during the MPh is marked with a CC counter and could thus not advance. If not Banzai:ing and it enters a Disrupted enemy unit's Location and stays there during the MPh, I do not believe the unit is marked with a CC counter, and could thus advance.

    However, in both cases, the Disrupted enemy unit will usually go away during the RtPh - either routing away, or eliminated for failure to rout.
     
  10. von Marwitz

    von Marwitz Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2010
    Kraut Corner
    This.

    von Marwitz
     
  11. Jacometti

    Jacometti Active Member

    Nov 3, 2008
    Halifax, NS
    thanks all for your wisdom.

    So I understand it that the Banzai unit ends its charge and then in the RtPh the disrupted unit routs away, since NQ is in effect.

    Not so bloodthirsty, after all.....
     
  12. klasmalmstrom

    klasmalmstrom Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2003
    Sweden
    There is always the AFPh to shoot at the Disrupted units as least. :)
     
  13. Swiftandsure

    Swiftandsure Robin Reeve Silver Supporting Member

    Jul 26, 2003
    St-L├ęgier
    ... and if other units of the Banzai charge have moved further, the Disrupted unit will be in dire straits when comes the time for it to scoot away.
     
  14. Jacometti

    Jacometti Active Member

    Nov 3, 2008
    Halifax, NS
    the lousy disrupt squad was in a wooden building.....my HS in the location was a 1-3-7.

    Not the most deadly shot.....
     
  15. Eagle4ty

    Eagle4ty Active Member

    Nov 7, 2007
    Eau Claire, Wi
    Good point.:thumbsup:
     

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