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Carln0130

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Carl, thanks.

The French airplanes, are they "Bi-planes"? Don't remember ever seeing pictures or reading about French aircraft involved in any fighting.

Cool, another "new" German counter to the counter mix. Going to need another Plano 3750.
The French airforce was very involved in the fighting and they had some very good state of the art monoplanes too. A twin engine fighter-bomber too. They weren't running around flying kites. Also, the British committed Hurricanes, but to my knowledge, no Spitfires, to the fighting. There were a couple of strafing runs conducted against the Germans queued up on the road waiting to try and get across the river. These strafing runs were largely ineffectual however. Rommel and his adjutant were strafed by German fighters trying to get down to the river on the morning of the 13th to try and assess the progress, or lack thereof at that point.

Can you say, mistaken attack?
 

GeorgeBates

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Originally Posted by Kevin Kenneally
Carl, thanks.

The French airplanes, are they "Bi-planes"? Don't remember ever seeing pictures or reading about French aircraft involved in any fighting.
The French airforce was very involved in the fighting and they had some very good state of the art monoplanes too. A twin engine fighter-bomber too. They weren't running around flying kites. Also, the British committed Hurricanes, but to my knowledge, no Spitfires, to the fighting. There were a couple of strafing runs conducted against the Germans queued up on the road waiting to try and get across the river. These strafing runs were largely ineffectual however. Rommel and his adjutant were strafed by German fighters trying to get down to the river on the morning of the 13th to try and assess the progress, or lack thereof at that point.

Can you say, mistaken attack?
This Wiki entry is a pretty fair summary of the Armée de l'Air strength and performance in the Battle Of France:

Air forces
In the air, the Allies were numerically inferior: the French Armée de l'Air had 1,562 aircraft, and RAF Fighter Command committed 680 machines, while RAF Bomber Command could contribute some 392 aircraft to operations.[74] Some of the Allied types were approaching obsolescence, such as the Fairey Battle. In the fighter force, only the British Hawker Hurricane and the French Dewoitine D.520 could contend with the German Messerschmitt Bf 109, the D.520 having better manoeuvrability although being slightly slower.[88] On 10 May 1940, though, only 36 D.520 fighters had been dispatched, all to one squadron. In fighter aircraft, the Allies had the numerical advantage; 836 German Bf 109s against 81 Belgian, 261 British and 764 French fighters of various types. The French and British also had larger aircraft reserves.[89] In early June 1940, the French aviation industry had reached a considerable output, with an estimated matériel reserve of nearly 2,000 aircraft.

However, a chronic lack of spare parts crippled this fleet. Only 29 percent (599) of the aircraft were serviceable, of which 170 were bombers.[90] Low serviceability meant the Germans had a clear numerical superiority in medium bomber aircraft,[89] with six times as many as the French.[78]

Despite its disadvantages the Armée de l'Air performed far better than expected, destroying 916 enemy aircraft in air-to-air combat during the Battle of France, for a kill ratio of 2.35:1, with almost a third of those kills accomplished by French pilots flying the US built Curtiss Hawk 75 [P-36] which accounted for 12.6 percent of the French single-seat fighter force.[91]

The French also ordered 100 P-40s, but these had not been delivered by the time the battle ended.
 
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Martin Mayers

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The French airforce was very involved in the fighting and they had some very good state of the art monoplanes too. A twin engine fighter-bomber too. They weren't running around flying kites. Also, the British committed Hurricanes, but to my knowledge, no Spitfires, to the fighting. There were a couple of strafing runs conducted against the Germans queued up on the road waiting to try and get across the river. These strafing runs were largely ineffectual however. Rommel and his adjutant were strafed by German fighters trying to get down to the river on the morning of the 13th to try and assess the progress, or lack thereof at that point.

Can you say, mistaken attack?
Please please tell everyone the story about the pillboxes and keys
 

Rock SgtDan

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The French had no biplane fighters in active service during WW2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blériot-SPAD_S.510). The Kirkland article suggests they had other problems, and even without their other problems, the allies were outnumbered by the Germans.

JR
No, not outnumbered at all. It was atrocious leadership that prevented them from being utilized:

The Battle of France:
10 May-25 June 1940

snip

The French fighter force had available to it during the battle more than 2900 modern aircraft. At no time did it have more than one-fifth of these deployed against the Germans. The operational rate of the fighter force was 0.9 sorties per aircraft per day at the height of the battle. (German fighter units flew up to four sorties per aircraft per day.) Yet in spite of committing only a minor portion of its resources at a low usage rate, the fighter force accounted for between 600 and 1000 of the 1439 German aircraft destroyed during the battle.

snip

Could the French Air Force Have
Seized Command of the Air?

On 10 May 1940, the operational units of the French Air Force committed to the Western Front were heavily outnumbered. The low rate of operations in the French Air Force compared to that of the Germans increased by a factor of four the French inferiority in the air during the first month of the battle. By mid-June, however, the Luftwaffe was exhausted. It had lost 40 percent of its aircraft. Its flyers had been operating above hostile territory without navigational aids and with the certainty of capture in the event their aircraft were disabled. The air and ground crews were working from captured fields at the end of lengthening supply lines. The French, on the other hand, had conducted much less intensive flight operations, were able to recover the crews of disabled aircraft, were falling back on their logistical bases, and were bringing new units on line with brand new aircraft every day.

By 15 June, the French and German air forces were at approximate parity with about 2400 aircraft each, but the French were operating from their own turf, and they had the support of the RAF.

Mastery of the air was there for the seizing, but on 17 June the French air staff began to order its units to fly to North Africa. The justification put forth by the air staff was that the army was destroyed and could not protect the airfields.


snip

Those left behind included all of the air force reserve units--47 observation squadrons and 12 fighter squadrons--and all of the units closely connected with the army (the observation squadrons, the 10 assault bomber squadrons, and 7 night fighter squadrons converted to the ground assault role).31

The behavior of the leaders of the French Air Force before and during the Battle of France suggests that their primary purposes were to protect the regular air force against its domestic adversaries and to ensure its survival after the battle and the expected defeat. Refusing to expand the regular air force, spinning off the dangerous and unglamorous observation mission to the reserves, maintaining a low operational rate, declining to seize command of the air when the Luftwaffe was weak, and selecting only regular air force units and those unconnected with direct support of the army to send to North Africa constitute a coherent pattern. The senior aviators kept their service small, protected the cadres from severe danger, and kept most of the regular air force together out of the Germans' reach. Such decisions suggest a preposterous misordering of priorities in a nation at war but do make psychological and institutional sense when one reflects on both the frustration the aviators had suffered in their struggle to achieve operational independence from the army and the cavalier and callous way in which parliamentary officials had played with their lives, careers, and values.
 
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Carln0130

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Please please tell everyone the story about the pillboxes and keys
Ah yes. Well the Pillboxes in this sector were:
A partially constructed in many cases, but the ones that were constructed had a rear door, that was locked. When the units manning this sector rotated out, and the 66th and 77th of the 18th division moved in, they, um, didn't have the keys. So as a result had to blow the doors off compromising several of the pillboxes integrity and leaving only a precious few serviceable.

FUBAR!!!!!
 

Carln0130

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Release date?
Realistically, it still has a way to go. No date yet.

Initial playtesting is still on going. Some tweaks with the map are being examined. Then once squared away to our liking, it needs to be submitted and go through the process in MMP. Will it happen? Certainly, but you really can't rush it. Rushing this stuff just leads to a lot of errata and a flawed product. It is coming along nicely in its pre-submission testing. Safe to say this should be new ground broken.
 

Tuomo

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Then once squared away to our liking, it needs to be submitted and go through the process in MMP. Will it happen? Certainly, but you really can't rush it. Rushing this stuff just leads to a lot of errata and a flawed product.
You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles.
 

william.stoppel

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2025 would be a realistic estimate of release date judging by the amount of time its taken to get RO done, and FB took what, 12 years. I hope I'm even alive to play it..
I wouldn't judge the time based on RO. I don't think much was done on it for at least 15 years until Fort picked it up a couple of years ago.
 

Carln0130

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Just go with FB then, I'm pretty sure it was 12yrs in development/finalizing/printing.
Given Dan started kicking this around on his own ten years ago, yeah, two years is accurate. The problem is, people work on day jobs, this takes time due to that more than anything else. Fortunately, there are always lots of good things in the pipeline from anyone of a number of people. Two years will be here before you know it. Now, once all the designers start retiring, senility not-withstanding, the pace of things coming out might increase precipitously. Unfortunately, we will all be on fixed incomes by then.:upset:
 

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Thank you for sharing these photos! That terrain is nothing like I expected.
More sir? :)
 

Martin Mayers

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Be very careful what you ask for ...
I don't intend uploading my photos. I'd be basically uploading the same as you. And your's are better presented.

I found it an amazing place.

One thing which intrigues me. Do you intend making any changes to the map based on what you saw?

Three things struck me. Firstly that the buildings on the map down South (ie. right at the bottom on the French side) seem too sparce compared to the place itself. I took a good walk around the German side of the river looking across towards the French side down South. Struck me there are some open LOS on the map which just don't seem to be there. The buildings, I don't think, are new and presume it wouldn't have changed much from the war (ie. I presume there haven't been a pile of buildings built post war. But I guess they could be, especially if you based on the drawing of the map on wartime pictures?

Secondly, I took a stroll along the river to see some of the little cullis type bridges cutting from the town to the river and also studied the embanked railway. Struck me that you really would need to be in an upper story building to see over the embanked railway and I wondered if the LOS special rules do enough justice to just how high the embanked railway actually is. For example, stood in a doorway of a building behind the embanked railway, you aren't seeing anything beyond the embankment of the railway....not even the citadel in some cases (despite it being astonishingly high up).

Finally. Convinced that the strange little road tunnel (the one with the woods on top down near the Leffe Museum) is actually drawn in the wrong direction on the map. If you looked towards this from upper levels of the Citadel you could basically look through the tunnel along the road. On the map is's pointing (if I recall correctly) from hexsides 1-4 whereas I'm convinced it should point from 3-6.

Just wondering whether you'd change this (or even agree) and whether, in scenario design, this is a part of the process or whether once the map is drawn, it's drawn. Intrigued really and nothing more.

It's a great campaign by the way and I urge everyone to buy this when it's out. I firmly believe that it buries anything that's ever come before even having only done a small level of playtesting. It's got pretty much everything in terms of interest levels and excitement. And it's a really original and clever setting. I'm just a little sad that my playtesting with Carl seems to have gone by the wayside. My fault. I thought late evening sessions would be more feasible than I'm finding them to be.
 
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