Die Hochseeflotte

Bullethead

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

AFAIK, the Japanese designed and used anti-aircraft shells for battleship's main guns, although from what I have read it seems that these shels were used sparsely because firing them meant excessive wear of the barrels.
It wasn't just BB guns, but their cruiser guns as well. The concept actually originated in the 20s, and the 1st couple of batches of IJN Treaty Cruisers had like 80^ main gun elevation for AA work. The Brits did exactly the same thing, although AFAIK they used regular HE instead of the incendiary round the IJN developed. However, nobody could get it to work well enough to justify the cost and complexity of the high-elevation turrets, so later cruisers were limited to about 45^, which they needed by then for surface fire anyway. But the IJN kept the special AA shells in service and used them in WW2, although without much success according to US pilots.
 

gascan

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Yup you´re right i was confused because all the sailors on the ships hull looked kind of familiar.

I totally forgot about this movie!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr5foWKctuI&feature=related
Wounder if it´s out on DVD!
If anyone knows about that Tsushima movie, let me know. Someone mentioned the name to me once, but I can't remember it now. I'm especially interested in finding it with subtitles: my Japanese vocabulary is too basic to understand most of what they say.
 

BadKarma

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

If anyone knows about that Tsushima movie, let me know. Someone mentioned the name to me once, but I can't remember it now. I'm especially interested in finding it with subtitles: my Japanese vocabulary is too basic to understand most of what they say.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064733/

Saw it 25 years ago on Italian television while on vacation with my parents.
 

TBR

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Yang

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Googled for subtitles for Nihonkai daikaisen and eventually found them, so yes there are english subtitles for the movie. The credits in the subtitles pointed to that page, they sell the movie for 15$ (Action Section - 4th title from above)
http://kurotokagigumi.com/

There is also a trailer for a new movie called aegis, from the cover i suspected a cheesy japanese B-movie but the trailer is actually rather well made. I even understand some basic stuff "That is my mission" or "Because i have to protect ... " , hehe. Spoiler: The older guy with glasses knows about a looming threat, but is ignored by the even older guys in charge so something happens. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Oh, and why the heck do the japanese Kongos look so much cooler than their american counterparts?
 
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TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

And here are today's pictures:

 

Bullethead

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

That pic of Lion's turret is one of my favorites, because it shows without doubt that she still had torp nets at Jutland :). Interesting that the caption says this was A turret, though--it's actually Q. Also, does the caption credit this hit to Seydlitz? I thought it was from Lutzow.
 

PepsiCan

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

No, they are talking about how a shell from Seydlitz penetrated the armour shortly after the hit on the turret. The shell destroyed the engine room repair shop.
 

TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

That pic of Lion's turret is one of my favorites, because it shows without doubt that she still had torp nets at Jutland . Interesting that the caption says this was A turret, though--it's actually Q. Also, does the caption credit this hit to Seydlitz? I thought it was from Lutzow.
That is supposed to be a post-Doggerbank, not a post Jutland picture :). A ways back I ran out of Jutland pictures and continued with Doggerbank pictures. If there is a mistake in the allocation of this picture I don't know where it lies, but this book places it post Doggerbank.
 
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Bullethead

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

That is supposed to be a post-Doggerbank, not a post Jutland picture :). A ways back I ran out of Jutland pictures and continued with Doggerbank pictures. If there is a mistake in the allocation of this pictures I don't know where it lies, but this book places it post Doggerbank.
I'm pretty sure the book is wrong, and this is a post-Jutland pic. I've always seen it labeled as such, and I agree.

First off, it's pretty easy to tell that's Q turret, due to the width of the hull around it and its lack of noticeable taper like you'd see at bow or stern. Also, the shape of the superstructure in the background is definitive. Second, as you see, the turret was burned out, including a large area of paint scorched off. Third, while the rear roof section was removed by a crane (you can see it on deck in the right background, still rigged with hoisting slings), the front part of the roof and the face between the guns are not visible. At Jutland, those very pieces were blown right off. All this damage is consistent with the near-fatal hit at Jutland, and not with Dogger Bank damage.
 

HReardon

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Oops, I thought it was Doggerbank, but BH makes a perfect case. I should just lurk!
 
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TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

I'm pretty sure the book is wrong, and this is a post-Jutland pic. I've always seen it labeled as such, and I agree.

First off, it's pretty easy to tell that's Q turret, due to the width of the hull around it and its lack of noticeable taper like you'd see at bow or stern. Also, the shape of the superstructure in the background is definitive. Second, as you see, the turret was burned out, including a large area of paint scorched off. Third, while the rear roof section was removed by a crane (you can see it on deck in the right background, still rigged with hoisting slings), the front part of the roof and the face between the guns are not visible. At Jutland, those very pieces were blown right off. All this damage is consistent with the near-fatal hit at Jutland, and not with Dogger Bank damage.
Not that I spotted this particular misallocation, but there are several pictures in the book where the captions have been corrected by the hand of a former owner, so that supports your analysis.
 

TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

The end of the server migration has hit me when I am seperated from my scanner, so no pictures today. I'll make it up tomorrow, I promise.
 

TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Here are the last two Doggerbank pics:


(quick 'n dirty) translation:

Hit in the aft part of SMS "Seydlitz"

On 10.43 "Seydlitz" took a fateful hit. A 34cm Grenade pierced the quarterdeck and penetrated through a armorplate-seam into turrets "Dora's" citadel and detonated there. The glowing splinters of the barbette thrust into the reloading chamber and ignited the main- and preload cartouches in the glidelanes. Flames shot upwards through the elevator shafts and ignited the cartouches on the turntable and in the elevator room. Crew of the cartouche-elevator room, too save themselves, opened a door to the similar room of turret "Cäsar", allowing the flames to penetrate this one too. Within a few seconds more than 6000kg of powder burned down. The flame which engulfed both turrets incinerated 165 men. In this moment Commander Richard Foerster, the gunnery officer, ordered rapid fire. Every ten second the remaining turrets shot a salvo! When every one thought he would see the battlecruiser explode the XO, Commander Hagedorn, Gunner Müller and Chief Pumping Mate Hering were able, even though being hampered by poisonous gases and unendurable heat, to close the flooding valves of compartment III and thus to fill the glowing ammunition chamber with seawater. The battlecruiser was saved!!!
 
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bpmcgee

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Wow, what are we seeing? Could you translate those descriptions, or are they too long?

B
 

Bullethead

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Wow, what are we seeing?
Looks to me like that's the entry hole for the shell that burned out Seydlitz's 2 aft turrets. The people in the background appear to be standing in the aft barbette, after the turret was removed for repair.
 

TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Wow, what are we seeing? Could you translate those descriptions, or are they too long?

B
Was already doing so while you posted :)

Here is the final picture:


Penetration of the fateful hit in the barbette of "Dora" with the armor seam being visible
 

JebUSMC

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

If that had been a Brit we almost certainly would've seen a huge mushroom cloud with turrets, armor, masts, and funnels flying through the air.
 
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