Did we do this correctly?

[MajorDomo]

The Brit 458 moves from V2 to V3.

The German 548/MMG wishes to Snap Shot the 458 along the V2/V3 hexside and also lay down a firelane T3, U3, V3.

I thought this was legal as the wooden rubble in hex V2 does not block LOS to the hexspine V2/V3. My opponent thought that LOS was in fact blocked to to entire V2/V3 hexside.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Curtis Brooks]

Rubble being inherent, you can't see the entire hexside AFAIK.

 

[Larry]

A8.15
Using ABTF map for the following examples.
...
Firer is in X17. Target moves from V18 to U19. DRM? If V18 was rubble, would there be LOS and if so what would be the
DRM? Target moves from U19 to V18. DRM? If V18 was rubble, would there be LOS and if so what would be the DRM?
A. +2 (Orchard + hedge). Yes, (rubble + hedge TEM). 0. Yes, rubble TEM.

I think that you have LOS to the hexside based on this Q&A. Absent the building in T2, you have LOS to V2.

 

[Eagle4ty]

The wooden rubble is an obstacle throughout the hex and per A6.2 a LOS/LOF may be traced into an obstacle but not through it to another hex beyond so I believe you have a LOS along the entire hexside as the inherent terrain of the obstacle cannot block a LOS to any portion of its own hex (See definition of hex in the index). NOTE: {See also the example B9.21 which I believe the same principal applies as the hedge along Y3-Z3 would normally be considered to block the LOS but does not block the LOS to the Z3-Z4 hexside for the purposes of a Snap Shot.}.

 

[von Marwitz]

The wooden rubble is an obstacle throughout the hex and per A6.2 a LOS/LOF may be traced into an obstacle but not through it to another hex beyond so I believe you have a LOS along the entire hexside as the inherent terrain of the obstacle cannot block a LOS to any portion of its own hex (See definition of hex in the index). NOTE: {See also the example B9.21 which I believe the same principal applies as the hedge along Y3-Z3 would normally be considered to block the LOS but does not block the LOS to the Z3-Z4 hexside for the purposes of a Snap Shot.}.

That would be my way of thinking, too. Rubble blocks LOS through but not into the hex.

I seem to recall that I have somewhere around here read the following some time ago which would go into the same direction:

In the OP picture, imagine V2 being a hex with a bypassable building. There is a wall on the V2-U3 hexside. An AFV is in Bypass in V2 with its CAFP at the V2-V3-W3 vertex.

In that case, I think that the Germans could still shoot at vulnerable PRC.


von Marwitz

 

[aloha_brian]

Is the TEM for the snap shot '0' or '+2'?
A8.15 third sentence "The FFNAM/FFMO DRM cannot apply..., nor does the TEM of most other terrain in the target hex (C.5C; however a wall/hedge/SMOKE/rubble hexside/spline of the hex being entered/exited can modify a Snap Shot if crossed by the LOF on the way to the target hexside)."

 

[Doug Leslie]

Is the TEM for the snap shot '0' or '+2'?
A8.15 third sentence "The FFNAM/FFMO DRM cannot apply..., nor does the TEM of most other terrain in the target hex (C.5C; however a wall/hedge/SMOKE/rubble hexside/spline of the hex being entered/exited can modify a Snap Shot if crossed by the LOF on the way to the target hexside)."

I think that the TEM is 0 because the LOS is directly to the target hexside as opposed to "on the way to it".

There is a Perry Sez which I think makes the position clear, albeit the target hexside is a hedge as opposed to rubble.

A8.15
A squad assault moves from bL3 to K3. Firers in M2, L1 and M1 each want to take a separate snap shot. Are any of these firers affected by hedge TEM?
A. No; A8.15.

Klas will be along in ten minutes to expose the flaws in my reasoning.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

There is a Perry Sez which I think makes the position clear, albeit the target hexside is a hedge as opposed to rubble.

This particular Q&A is now actually obsolete after the Action Pack #4 update pages in Section B9.

For a hedge, B9.42 applies now.

 

[Doug Leslie]

This particular Q&A is now actually obsolete after the Action Pack #4 update pages in Section B9.

For a hedge, B9.42 applies now.

And there we go...!

So I guess that there is +2 TEM for the rubble hexside after all?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

As for the rubble, I don't know....it's been a while since I pursued the Snap Shot rules and Q&A.

 

[Doug Leslie]

As for the rubble, I don't know....it's been a while since I pursued the Snap Shot rules and Q&A.

I can feel another question to Perry coming on...