DFF and Activation Question

[Kijug]

Germany is the ENEMY. There exists two ENEMY S? and an Activated German squad. It is the Russian MPh. The Russian 4-4-7 non-assault moves from Z6 to AA7. Now...is this what occurs?

1. The German 4-4-7 "would be activated" so it First Fires on the 4-4-7...misses. Due to S8.61 the German 4-4-7 Final Fires at the 4-4-7 (due to 2 MF) and misses again.
2. The S? in DD7 activates, becomes a German 4-4-7 and First Fires, then Final Fires because the Russian 4-4-7 survives all the MCs.
3. The S? in DD8 activates, becomes a German 4-4-7 and First Fires, then Final Fires because the Russian 4-4-7 survives all the MCs.

The question is, if there were 20 S? all around the Russian 4-4-7, when the Russian 4-4-7 moves, would all 20 S? activate in an attempt to make the Russian 4-4-7 no longer in Good Order? If the Russian keeps rolling low MCs and surviving and/or the Activated German units keep missing, you could end up Activating a lot of ENEMY units due to one move.

Sounds right, but sounds weird too. Perhaps that is SASL? I think so. I guess kind of like a HS "scout" in full ASL. Yes/no?

Thanks!

 

[Ahriman667]

Slight clarification of your situation:
FR MPh:

1. The S? in DD6 activates producing a GE 447 which conducts First Fire (A8.1). It misses. Marked with a First Fire counter.
2. The S? in DD& rolls activation, produces a GE 447 which conducts First Fire, maybe hits but the RU 447 makes its MC. Marked with a First Fire counter.
3. The S? in DD8 rolls activation, produces a GE 447 which conducts First Fire, maybe hits but the RU 447 makes its MC. Marked with a First Fire counter.
4. rinse and repeat for any S? that might be activated as per S5.31

EN DFPh:

1. RU 447 in DD6 conducts Final Fire (A8.4).
2. RU 447 in DD7 conducts Final Fire

...rinse and repeat for any other cases.

Yes, (as per S5.31) any eligible S? would be checked for activation. Also don't forget the chance for a HMG long-range activation check for any non-assault in open ground moves (-2 modifier on IFT).

It might be 'gaming' the system but could be detrimental if your chance of rolling reinforcements (based on crappy modifiers) at mission end...you could reduce your company OOB quite quickly if you are too reckless. I guess like most things it risk-reward.

Somebody posted their 'houserule' on here where in the make a subsequent roll to see if a S? might roll for activation if it's not a realistic threat to their self-defense (i.e. a single HS).

EDIT.

Removed the edit

 

[Kijug]

Slight clarification of your situation:
FR MPh:

1. The S? in DD6 activates producing a GE 447 which conducts First Fire (A8.1). It misses. Marked with a First Fire counter.
2. The S? in DD& rolls activation, produces a GE 447 which conducts First Fire, maybe hits but the RU 447 makes its MC. Marked with a First Fire counter.
3. The S? in DD8 rolls activation, produces a GE 447 which conducts First Fire, maybe hits but the RU 447 makes its MC. Marked with a First Fire counter.
4. rinse and repeat for any S? that might be activated as per S5.31

EN DFPh:

1. RU 447 in DD6 conducts Final Fire (A8.4).
2. RU 447 in DD7 conducts Final Fire

...rinse and repeat for any other cases.

Yes, (as per S5.31) any eligible S? would be checked for activation. Also don't forget the chance for a HMG long-range activation check for any non-assault in open ground moves (-2 modifier on IFT).

It might be 'gaming' the system but could be detrimental if your chance of rolling reinforcements (based on crappy modifiers) at mission end...you could reduce your company OOB quite quickly if you are too reckless. I guess like most things it risk-reward.

Somebody posted their 'houserule' on here where in the make a subsequent roll to see if a S? might roll for activation if it's not a realistic threat to their self-defense (i.e. a single HS).

EDIT.

Also don't forget to FG the GE units in the DFPh to maximize firepower.

So are you saying that each Activated ENEMY S? does a First Fire only...then after all First Fires then go back around and do Final Fires? (in an attempt to make the FRIENDLY unit no longer Good Order)

Oh...and if so...then the Final Fire would be a FG (on the 2nd MF)...yes? Wait, S8.53 indicates FGs do not span multiple hexes...only "same Location FG are allowed."

 

[Ahriman667]

Your correct, during PFPh and AFPh you can have multi-Location FG's, just not during DFPh.

Re First Fire and Subsequent First Fire they only happen during the MPh. Final Fire is done during the DFPh by units that have done First/Subsequent First Fire.

 

[TopT]

So are you saying that each Activated ENEMY S? does a First Fire only...then after all First Fires then go back around and do Final Fires? (in an attempt to make the FRIENDLY unit no longer Good Order)

Oh...and if so...then the Final Fire would be a FG (on the 2nd MF)...yes? Wait, S8.53 indicates FGs do not span multiple hexes...only "same Location FG are allowed."

The FG means if multiple MMC's are activated in the same location. If that happens, and they have a LOS to the unit that caused the AC, they can FG vs. that unit.

per S5.3: If the moving Target expended ≥ 2 MF/MP to enter the Location Subsequent-FF/ROF attacks are conducted as possible until that Target loses its Good Order status (or is eliminated if berserk). See also 5.31-.32 and 8.13

 

[hayman]

So are you saying that each Activated ENEMY S? does a First Fire only

Re First Fire and Subsequent First Fire they only happen during the MPh

I'm of the opinion that an already activated ENEMY unit will First Fire and then Subsequent First Fire on a Friendly moving unit expending 2 or more MF before any S? are checked for activation. If the already activated ENEMY breaks the Friendly unit, the S? are not required to be checked for possible activation at that time.

 

[Eagle4ty]

I'm of the opinion that an already activated ENEMY unit will First Fire and then Subsequent First Fire on a Friendly moving unit expending 2 or more MF before any S? are checked for activation. If the already activated ENEMY breaks the Friendly unit, the S? are not required to be checked for possible activation at that time.

That was my take on it as well but since SASL is "your" game I suppose you could enact interpretations as you seem fit. I would think that intermediate AC's would remove more "S?" counters though if you were to follow a different procedure or maybe activate more enemy units (not that balance is a primary goal in SASL scenarios).