DF ammo carrier

TDR

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DF ammo carrier.

When creating a vehicle using the power toolkit and a database, how is the ammo type allocated to a vehicle with special attribute “DF Ammo Carrier”.
All I can gather is you allocate what amounts to is a weapon and then the number of round carried in that vehicle.

So how would a weapon being resupplied determine between say an AT round type vs a HE type as a very simple example; or for a tank say a HE round vs a Splintex round?

IF ammo is easy s that is already defined by round type but DF ammo is not.
 

CPangracs

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DF ammo carrier.

When creating a vehicle using the power toolkit and a database, how is the ammo type allocated to a vehicle with special attribute “DF Ammo Carrier”.
All I can gather is you allocate what amounts to is a weapon and then the number of round carried in that vehicle.

So how would a weapon being resupplied determine between say an AT round type vs a HE type as a very simple example; or for a tank say a HE round vs a Splintex round?

IF ammo is easy s that is already defined by round type but DF ammo is not.
If I'm reading you correctly, the answer to your question is:

A vehicle designated as an ammo carrier can carry ANY ammo. You do NOT have to have a "weapon" of that type assigned to the vehicle. If you DO have that weapon type assigned, it will use the ammo for the weapon assigned.

All ammo carriers are designed to hold spare ammo or, as in the case of the FAASV, resupply SP Howitzers with IF ammo.

When I build say, a Bradley IFV, I ensure I give the vehicle the DF Ammo Carrier attribute and add the correct amount of ammo carried for dismounts, such as AT-4/Javelin ammo, 7.62 and 5.56 MG and Rifle ammo, Grenades, Smoke, etc.

Does that answer your question?

Doing this you can also creat logistics vehicles that can be attacked on the battlefield, as often resupply trucks are used to transport ammo, DF and IF, to forward units on the battlefield.

Hope this helps!

Curt
 

TDR

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Not quite with respect to answering the question..

Now using the power Tol kit IF ammo is created through the database menu as:
Database->Vehicles->IF Ammo->Add/Edit.
When a vehicle is given the attribute ‘IF Ammo Carrier’, IF Ammo is allocated from the created list of IF Ammo.

With DF ammo there is no specific DF ammo list to create like IF ammo.

So when I create a vehicle as a DF Ammo carrier and say all I want to carry is 5.56mm rnds.
If this is for fire teams armed with as an example Rifle 5.56mm M16A1 and other fire teams with M16A2s from what I gather in the ‘Direct Fire Ammunition Dialog’ window I will have to enter both, and that is both weapons, yet the ammunition is identical.
From what I see the carrier will only distribute ammunition based on weapon not actual calibre needed as in this case.

So am I correct in that weapon actually defines ammunition for DF ammunition?

Now the other part of the problem is how do I distinguish between ammunition type for a specific weapon?
Simple example: Centurion Tank, Gun 105mm a DF weapon. Now I want HE, AP,(generic for the example) and also splintex. How do these various ammunition types get allocated in terms of ammunition carriers and also the actual weapon being fired; or is this a straight case of generic ammunition and assume it, for tanks, is always AT rounds?
Splintex just comes to mind for Vietnam. :laugh:
 

eds

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Not quite with respect to answering the question..

Now using the power Tol kit IF ammo is created through the database menu as:
Database->Vehicles->IF Ammo->Add/Edit.
When a vehicle is given the attribute ‘IF Ammo Carrier’, IF Ammo is allocated from the created list of IF Ammo.

With DF ammo there is no specific DF ammo list to create like IF ammo.

So when I create a vehicle as a DF Ammo carrier and say all I want to carry is 5.56mm rnds.
If this is for fire teams armed with as an example Rifle 5.56mm M16A1 and other fire teams with M16A2s from what I gather in the ‘Direct Fire Ammunition Dialog’ window I will have to enter both, and that is both weapons, yet the ammunition is identical.
From what I see the carrier will only distribute ammunition based on weapon not actual calibre needed as in this case.

So am I correct in that weapon actually defines ammunition for DF ammunition?

Now the other part of the problem is how do I distinguish between ammunition type for a specific weapon?
Simple example: Centurion Tank, Gun 105mm a DF weapon. Now I want HE, AP,(generic for the example) and also splintex. How do these various ammunition types get allocated in terms of ammunition carriers and also the actual weapon being fired; or is this a straight case of generic ammunition and assume it, for tanks, is always AT rounds?
Splintex just comes to mind for Vietnam. :laugh:
In simple terms Nick, ATF does not distinguish between different DF ammo types for the same weapon.
 

eds

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Nick, have you managed to work in different ammo types for the same weapon?

I have thought of some possible work around solutions for the example that you have given. Although I don't know what SPLINTEX is I'm presuming it's a shortish range anti personel round
 

TDR

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Nick, have you managed to work in different ammo types for the same weapon?

I have thought of some possible work around solutions for the example that you have given. Although I don't know what SPLINTEX is I'm presuming it's a shortish range anti personel round
The only simplistic way I have thought of is define a weapon in an ammunition specific manner. That though has limitations with the weapon use and leaves the whole thing still in square 1, (or zero depending on how you count things).:D

A weapon may have an attribute of Burst Radius but for DF guns this is not allocated as it really applies to IF gun systems, i.e. arty, mors etc.
Besides the ammunition types that are listed for Burst radius really are for IF systems not DF ones.

I raised the mater of splintex because in Vietnam it was highly useful in some conditions.
It had a short range but good clearing ability.
Arty had a similar round as well as the good old M79 and M203.

Besides the modern battles there is the matter of WWII. Here one has a bigger problem with DF weapons, both arty and also tank guns. Most WWII tanks had stowed HE, AT, (generic term), and some Smoke, (calibre dependent), in varying configurations depending on the local battle conditions and perceived enemy.
AT guns and some field gun/howitzers has combinations of AT and HE rounds, with eth field guns having smoke as well. Even the British 2 pdr AT gun has HE and the solid AT rounds.

Eds I suppose a long winded way of saying, nothing really useful in DF ammo selection.
 

eds

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The only real way I could figure out how to factor the various rounds in is this. Taking the example of a centurion in Vietnam. Build the main gun. In the kill odds for infantry/dismounts put the amount you feel is appropriate for SLINTEX, leave the vehicle kill odds as appropriate for AP rounds.
Give your Centurion an indirect fire capability and give it HE and smoke rounds.
The problem with this is that if your tank is shelling one target, but then gets surprised by a previously undetected NVA RPG Tm it is likely to fire at them with the main gun thus effectively firing twice with the same weapon.
 
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TDR

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interesting option.
Unfortunately Splintex has about a 100 - 200m range. It is real short range stuff.
Clears everything.
 

TDR

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Any way I am still chasing clarity re how "DF Ammo" is allocated to a DF Ammo carrier and it still appears to be weapon based, as my other post.
 

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I was in Wallyworld the other day and bought some WWB 147 grain JHP. Im kind of curious - how do you know which ammo is considered P? Its not usually marked on the box of most of the common types I see.
 

Pat Proctor

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Nick,

There is no object in the database corresponding to "DF Ammo." The weapon defines the ammo. So, if your DF Ammo carrier has 50 rounds for the weapon "120mm Smoothbore" then it will replenish any vehicle carrying that weapon with ammo for that weapon.

Does that make sense?
 

TDR

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Nick,

There is no object in the database corresponding to "DF Ammo." The weapon defines the ammo. So, if your DF Ammo carrier has 50 rounds for the weapon "120mm Smoothbore" then it will replenish any vehicle carrying that weapon with ammo for that weapon.

Does that make sense?
Apologies Pat for not paying much attention to this thread. As per email I was tied up metaphorically also hit with a bit of deliberating med issues. Sort of stuffed things up:mad:

I follow what you have said but I was trying to be more specific in ammunition use and loadings. In essence similar to the IF type weapons where ammunition may be selected. The reality is for DF weapons there is a range of ammunition and there is no deliberate way to differentiate how to select such.
As an example how does the vehicle, say Abrams, decide to use either a APFSDS, HEAT, or the AP canister round in the game? The way the DF gun dialogue is set this fixes the effect of a round and hence would appear to assume one round type only.

Yes one can easily argue that as a player one don't have time to select ammunition types for tank DF weapons as in IF weapons. Counter to that is I am not going to fire an APFSDS round into a bunch of people as it is not as effective as AP Canister. Such a round APFSDS will have a suppressive effect but not the permeant cleansing effect. The game still only recognises a single ammunition type for DF so in all cases I am going to fire that APFSDS round.
 

Pat Proctor

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The game abstracts different types of direct fire ammo to a single type. The pK odds are set to assume that the vehicle fires the correct ammo for the target.
 
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