Dennis boys trip to Manila #2 (Let's try SF CG3)

[sdennis]

So we finally kicked off CG3 yesterday. So much troop coordination and life in the way we got only turn 1 done. I'm trying to decide what to do with the rest of my guys while Neil goes on a trip next week. A lot of my plans were changed when I finally remembered you can't throw smoke grenades INTO the upwind hexes...

So near the bay I simply want to gather the strategic locations, that's all but apparently he was expecting a bigger push. All 3 big MTRs have overwatch here from the level 3 roofs in the back, he put a 120L right up front, and a HIP 10-1 with 2 .50 popped up. I tried to armored assault along the seawall to grab those hexes and the 120L pops up, of course I'm in his boresighted hex but he's only seen me for 2MP so anything but an 11 or 12 and I'm toast. Of course much swearing happens when the 6,5 shows up, so they decide to make a hard right turn and get out of LOS!
I also put 2 squads and a leader in his 10-1 boresighted hex but at least I had smoke. A wounded 8-0, dead HS and broken fanatic squad are all that is left. The fanatic squad also generated a hero but he died on the SFF rate shot.
I did not want to bring the OBA over here but I have to, it scared the 10-1 down and I was able to keep the gun not concealed so guess where the OBA is going next prep phase?



I'll show the back left just to see the big MTRs and some reinforcements with their track shoes on.


So in the area around the college not much is going on yet. I suspect the front building hex is mined, maybe even the chapel too. Not sure if I'm ready to smoke this yet, the acquisition was enough to keep his guys back. I've got some guys coming from just off screen right if I decide to move on this in this scenario.


Just north of the college a few more track team reinforcements are running south as fast as they can



In the area that is developing in to the direct clash around the pharmacy and science building he appears to be doing a reverse slope defense which I think will be tough to crack. These buildings are huge. I have a strong suspicion that the front building hexes are all mined. He's not venturing out even though I gave him the opportunity and he likes to do that, and I already discovered "something" in the woods in 3Z78 with dummies. The rubble gives me a way into the science building but getting a toehold will be really tough, especially if it starts raining and I can't cover a building with Smoke. My civilian interrogation did find a couple of HIP 137 guys in 2 buildings, so he might be playing the HIP HS game too...
The 8-1 stack is a couple of 747s and their friends are next door under CX. I was very cautious here with a lot of smoke from the onboard guys.
The power stack on the right is just trying to get into position, but his reverse slope is not going to give them many shots I suspect.
Only 1 of the MTR HTs is on board. Trying to find the best spots for them out of sight from his mortars, even the little ones.


In the east we are trying a small flanking maneuver, the rider that tried to survive a turret change did not and off screen right is a M8 that already got hit by a sniper 2.
Under his acq. is my strong stack over here, .50/mmgx2 from the onboard company with a 9-1. The big stack behind them probably has some more mgs I bet.
I already told him the OBA over by his 120L is purchased 150mm because it's coming down next time we meet, so this one here is the given 100mm. Not sure what to do with it yet, I'm not ready to assault yet. You see the 2 minefields I found by searching, he had another 137 HIP here as well but I know those hexes are devoid of troops.
He has one of the 4 IFE AA guns in the warehouse 4C72 and my mortar in teh foxhole is battling his in the rubble, I hit him like 4 times with no effect except for a sniper!
Sorry I pinned him.



And around the cemetery we have the rest of the track team coming to help.



I likely won't show the backfield in subsequent posts, just giving context for now.

 

[von Marwitz]

the 120L pops up, of course I'm in his boresighted hex but he's only seen me for 2MP so anything but an 11 or 12 and I'm toast. Of course much swearing happens when the 6,5 shows up, so they decide to make a hard right turn and get out of LOS!

I hate when these sort of things happen:

You've got that one shiny gadget that you rarely see if at all in a scenario (be it such an 120L, a M16 meatchopper halftrack, a Goliath or some such...). Everything is thought through, considered, and carefully set up. And the enemy even does you the favor to step into your carefully prepared trap. Chances are all in your favor, you roll the dice...

... and against all odds you screw up or your "attraction" never works for some other reason.

Best to top it off when your opponent announces just prior to your roll: "Now watch those boxcars coming..."



Your opponent has my sympathies. Your tank should have been blown to kingdom come and while we talk some of its smaller parts should still be on their way falling back to earth...

Gotta luv this damn game.

von Marwitz

 

[sdennis]

I hate when these sort of things happen:

Empathy is fine!

Your opponent has my sympathies. Your tank should have been blown to kingdom come and while we talk some of its smaller parts should still be on their way falling back to earth...

Gotta luv this damn game.

von Marwitz

Sympathy for my brother, is totally unwarranted!!!

 

[Den589]

I hate when these sort of things happen:

You've got that one shiny gadget that you rarely see if at all in a scenario (be it such an 120L, a M16 meatchopper halftrack, a Goliath or some such...). Everything is thought through, considered, and carefully set up. And the enemy even does you the favor to step into your carefully prepared trap. Chances are all in your favor, you roll the dice...

... and against all odds you screw up or your "attraction" never works for some other reason.

Best to top it off when your opponent announces just prior to your roll: "Now watch those boxcars coming..."



Your opponent has my sympathies. Your tank should have been blown to kingdom come and while we talk some of its smaller parts should still be on their way falling back to earth...

Gotta luv this damn game.

von Marwitz

Yeah my dice are continuing to be outright rotten. Steve even failed to mention me 12'ing the field phone on the second contact for my OBA (at least its retained.) He was in and out of three or four bore-sighted hexes and I have a wounded 8-0 and a 1/2 squad dead to show for it. If this continues my precision dice might be in line for a precision throw out the window and replacement.

 

[sdennis]

So I guess now I get the whine, since we did not drink any wine on Sunday?

He's even started tracking the 2s and 12s to make himself feel better. But let's go to the tape... my first 1,1 was a wind change that probably hurt me a little bit (changed direction), he did offer to mulligan this one since the wind change last time had a GIGANTIC impact.
One of my other 1,1 was on the guys running through the boresight, the hero died 30 seconds later and the fanatic guy STILL broke. So unless the fanatic guy goes on a Hulk style rampage, that one was wasted too...

Can you whine in red and white? I might want to switch flavors...

 

[johnl]

Is a rosé whine a whimper_

 

[sdennis]

Is a rosé whine a whimper_

Find me a rose that doesn’t taste like watered down kool aid and I’ll let you know!!

 

[jimfer]

Tanks in bore sighted hexes always end up with ...

 

[sdennis]

That Meme/joke would not have gone over well in the heat of the moment!

 

[von Marwitz]

Find me a rose that doesn’t taste like watered down kool aid and I’ll let you know!!

Maybe Tokyo Rosé?

von Marwitz

 

[sdennis]

OK so we are not the fastest players in the comfort of our own home!
We got another 1.5 turns done yesterday. All my plans went out the window when it started to rain. so No SMOKE for me! But the 3s still kept coming for me which certainly doesn't hurt
Same precision dice but everytime I drop them a 3 seems to popup and Neil immediately rolls something much higher!

In the west we are just happy to take whatever we can get up to the road and try to hide from the 120L and big mortars.
The 150mm came down on the 120L and the 10-1 stack near the bay and didn't accomplish a lot. It ended up striping the 228, rubbling a hex with an 8+1/DC and almost rubbled the 10-1 stack hex (got a original 2KIA) but couldn't roll the 1 for the rubble, so they got away. Next turn it rubbled another hex killing a 347, so only killed a squad and a crappy leader. The 10-1 stack is under the bright white light in the picture after running away. I've managed to grab all the strategic locations south of the road with the exception of the water edges and that is likely all I'm going to get. I tried to dash across the street with a 667 from the woods to the rubble and the next 10-1 with 2 hmgs vaporized him with a 6(-3), knocking down those 2 building hexes in front of Elena does open up some interesting LOS for him. Nothing is happening around the college as I'm sure he has everything mined. A 20L gun did pop up in 3H75 but broke on it's 2nd or 3rd shot. (under the acquisistion by the college).


In the middle you have the bulk of the Americans slowly probing. It cost me a HS to confirm the mines all along the pharmacy and another in the debris which we are trying to remove. I thought it was an easier roll because 747 AE must be sappers too right? Nope not in this module. He has reinforced his reverse slope defense a bit and is waiting for me to enter the buildings.
My observer came on board to get a better position, Neil marked him with a die to make sure he doesn't forget where he is for next weekend. ANd my 9-1 near there is a 30FP that vaporized the guy that wanted to launch THH at the AFV right by the Science building. So I have a ton of firepower and FT and everything else just hanging out in the street waiting to charge in but I know for sure half of the hexes are mined and knowing Neil the science building is fully mined too. I did get a concealed guy upstairs in the pharmacy but he is seriously outnumbered
I may use the tanks (second one is under the Acq) to enter this building and create some TBs for the infantry since this building does not have any cellars.
The 100 SR is lost in the building and the 150 SR has appeared where it can hopefully see anyone who drops ? on the right flank.

To me it seems like you can enter a mined building hex and create a TB that the infantry can immediatly use, could not find anything against that. Does that seem right? Kibbitzing allowed here so we get it right.
He has brought up a new tall stack in between the college and pharmacy building



And finally in the east I'm playing the stupid "collect stratigic locations" game on board edge and other places so he can't setup there tomorrow, while trying to get around the flank of Ermita.
My little HT mortar actually started a fire in it with a 1,1 result which makes Neil happy because the whole building might go down in refit, denying me a great base of fire. The fire is under the Acq. near Mr. Beserk (which was Neil's 2nd 1,1 roll!!!), we spent some time figuring out how he's going to charge because he can't bypass the wire on the tree side or building side, so if it had blazed he would have had to go into the wire in the trees but now will be able to go INTO the building that's on fire than charge through the wire at the tanks which I have hopefully enough FP there to deal with him. He's down to a 448 and 3 concealed counters in this building. The 448 has been stallwart, getting pinned in the center hex but he survived a bunch of hits from both tanks. I now know there are no AT mines in the first wire hex so jamming the tank down his throat might be in order next turn assuming the beserk guy dies like he's supposed to.
My 9-1 stack lost his 2 667/mmg squads to other duties but 2 more .50 cals joined him so this is a 24FP with decent overwatch but not a lot of targets. so his duty is likely to kill the beserk guy with a 24(-3) when he hits the wire hex.
Assuming my observer survives the 100mm might get used but if he gets shot or I can't get it in a good spot it might be time to forgo it's usage in this scenario. The 150 would like to be used near that 9-1, 3 mmg stack that jumped up and tried to use the boresighting against me. He's starting to get a bit crowded over here, harassing fire might even be warranted given the lack of cover.
So goes South Manila for us so far. No smoke is making this really difficult.

 

[Honza]

I like your AARs because you include great pictures!

BTW are not all mines set up onboard?

 

[von Marwitz]

To me it seems like you can enter a mined building hex and create a TB that the infantry can immediatly use, could not find anything against that. Does that seem right? Kibbitzing allowed here so we get it right.

There is a Q&A that says:

"B28.61 & D9.3 - A stack of Infantry moving via Armored Assault wants to enter a hex suspected to contain an AP minefield. May the Infantry expend twice the MF (iaw B28.61) while entering the hex via Armored Assault in order to benefit from the new TB the AFV would create if there is a minefield there?
A. No. {2}"

I interpret this, that the Infantry cannot use that (Partial) TB immediately.

von Marwitz

 

[Gordon]

That seems odd as you read numerous accounts of infantry walking in the tread marks of tanks during assaults. Of course there's a good chance if an AP mine is set off by the tank that some amount of shrapnel is still going to wiz around.

 

[sdennis]

There is a Q&A that says:

"B28.61 & D9.3 - A stack of Infantry moving via Armored Assault wants to enter a hex suspected to contain an AP minefield. May the Infantry expend twice the MF (iaw B28.61) while entering the hex via Armored Assault in order to benefit from the new TB the AFV would create if there is a minefield there?
A. No. {2}"

I interpret this, that the Infantry cannot use that (Partial) TB immediately.

von Marwitz

I was not going to do that, I did see that Q&A. Tank enters building, TB is placed. Later in the same movement an infantry unit wants to use that TB.

 

[von Marwitz]

I was not going to do that, I did see that Q&A. Tank enters building, TB is placed. Later in the same movement an infantry unit wants to use that TB.

Yet, I still don't think that the partial TB can be used at that time:

"B24.74 ....Good Order Infantry may enter a Known minefield hex free of minefield attack by placing a partial TB, provided they expend their entire MF allotment to do so, become TI, and attempt to clear the minefield at the end of their CCPh. Unless the minefield is cleared, these units may exit the minefield free of minefield attack only by the hexside through which they entered. No other units may use the partial TB. The partial TB counter is removed if they are eliminated or exit the hex."

The Q&A says, no use as part of Armored Assault. B24.74 Clearance does not allow use of a partial TB even if other Infantry entered with the intention of Clearing the Mines.

In any case, Clearance only occurs at the end of the CCPh. In your case, you are attempting to move in before the CCPh, i.e. in the same MPh.

All this taken together makes me think, that what you want to pull off is N/A.

von Marwitz

 

[sdennis]

Not quite. The infantry is not moving in to clear. The TANK moves in, it gets a partial TB immediately (or full if it transitions out). Tanks movement is over, TB counter has been placed.
NOW the infantry just want to enter using the TB.

 

[von Marwitz]

The TANK moves in, it gets a partial TB immediately (or full if it transitions out).

Where in the rules does it say that the partial TB placed by the tank can be immediately used by other units in the same MPh? I don't see that.

Another tidbid to support my argument:

"D28.7 FLAIL TANKS: A Flail Tank (U.S. Vehicle Note 20; British Vehicle Notes 24 and 26) may engage in Mine Clearance by specifying at the start of its MPh that it will do so and expending its entire printed MP allotment (other than any MP for Starting/changing-VCA) to enter a hex, using neither Reverse nor VBM nor ESB. It is then marked with a Motion counter and is immune to minefield attack in the hex entered. A Flail Tank clears (i.e., creates as per 24.74) a TB through the minefield in its hex at the end of its CCPh on a Mine Clearance Final DR of ≤ 10 (Δ), provided it did not fire or become Immobile/eliminated during that Player Turn."

If even a Flail Tank only creates a TB at the end of its CCPh, why should a normal tank do so before that?

If a tank creates a partial TB, this partial TB cannot be used by other tanks - instead, they would have to create a second partial TB even if entering via the same hexside as per Q&A:

"B13.421 - A Fully Tracked AFV has entered a woods location, placing a partial TB counter and ending its MPh in that location neither immobilized nor as a wreck. A second fully tracked AFV wants to enter the same woods location via the partial TB with the intention to end its MPh there as well. Can the second fully tracked AFV use that partial TB free of a Bog check? Could the second AFV "complete" the partial TB by exiting the woods hex?

A. No to both (B13.421-.12); place a second partial TB when the second AFV enters (unless the first AFV had bogged, making it Immobile and removing its partial TB)."

A second tank can only use a full TB in the same MPh in which a previous tank has created it.

von Marwitz

 

[sdennis]

A TB counter is placed. The rules do exclude other TANKS from using it yes, I knew that but I'm asking about infantry. Where does it say I CANNOT use it?

 

[von Marwitz]

A TB counter is placed. The rules do exclude other TANKS from using it yes, I knew that but I'm asking about infantry. Where does it say I CANNOT use it?

COWTRA? Concentrate on what the rules allow.
Where is Infantry allowed to use a partial TB under the circumstances you describe?

What I see is that Infantry can only enter a Minefield free of attack by Clearance, creating a partial TB in the process. The actual Clearance attempt only takes place at the end of the CCPh. Besides that, you did not enter your Infantry attempting Clearance.

von Marwitz