ERutins
Member
Yes, we didn't realize that due to being too familiar with the game and the tutorial, but we're going to change that for the release.
Demo
- Thread starter junk2drive
- Start date
ERutins
Member
It's also worth mentioning that in Ostfront, you can play without the reaction phase. If you turn on 60 second turns in the Options screen, it will play just like CM with full orders every 60 second and no reaction phase. It is a WeGo game, the goal of the reaction phase was to help model command limitations. So you could change full orders every 80 seconds, but the turn was divided into two 40 second "phases" with a chance in the middle to make limited reactions without wholesale orders changes.
Regards,
- Erik
The split phased turn system is really an artificial result of there being very little tacAI in PCK. There is now some TacAI that responds to events around a unit in PCO, so I see little use of the split system. I use 40s and 60s turns.
I really think its a artifact of the turn-based minatures game Pazer Wars that PCO came from. I still see no reason why in one 40s stretch you can issue these orders, but in the next 40s stretch you can't. It is all very forced and artificial to me.
I really think its a artifact of the turn-based minatures game Pazer Wars that PCO came from. I still see no reason why in one 40s stretch you can issue these orders, but in the next 40s stretch you can't. It is all very forced and artificial to me.
ERutins
Member
I understand that point of view. The feedback about the orders system over time is one reason why we want to overhaul it for the next release. The current one works and can give realistic results, but it's not intuitive for new players and can feel forced until you really get used to it. The goal is to have an orders system for the next release that lets us model command and control better without the forced feeling and while also allowing an intuitive simple orders mode.
With that said, I hope gamers will be willing to climb that learning curve (it's not that steep) as there is IMHO a great game there and the extra work of learning the orders system shouldn't stop you from enjoying it.
Regards,
- Erik
With that said, I hope gamers will be willing to climb that learning curve (it's not that steep) as there is IMHO a great game there and the extra work of learning the orders system shouldn't stop you from enjoying it.
Regards,
- Erik
mOBIUS
Member
What it represents is an opportunity for a short emergency order. The Order in the reaction phase would be akin to "Halt!", "Back Up!" or "Target 10-o'clock 400 meters AP".
The regular Orders phase represents the input of a long winded detail orders. Would these really happen every 60 or 80 seconds? Probabaly not but this is a game. Somewhere after that a tank may run down a road and get in a situation where it needs to abort that original order or take advantage of its new position. In a RT game you could pause and redo your orders. The reaction phase just is an opportunity to do that. The longer 80 second turns makes you think ahead and plan more but the reaction phase allows you to recover from un-expected events faster.
[Edit]Oh, yeah. One additional difference. To reinforce the above difference the Reaction phase order is a one unit order. It only applies to one individual not the entire platoon like the regular Orders phase order. So if you order withdraw it only applies to the tank(s) that you give it to not the entire platoon.
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Elvis
Member
Thanks guys. I'm picking up what you're laying down.
However, I switched to the alternative option of just having a minutes worth of turns. This works fine for me in most circumstances. I never was a big fan of the double phases, especially in PBEM games.
junk2drive
Member
It's been said before but I'll repeat it. MR was the biggest pain in the asp about adding 60 second turns to PCO. When we finally got them, MR was so use to having the ability to intervene at 40 seconds that he never uses it.
BlitzCanuck
Pretend Command Sgt. Maj.
Against a human opponent i would definitely want to make adjustments as often as possible but against the AI i think 60 second turns is more than frequent enough.
Scott Tortorice
Senior Member
So am I. I needed to replay the tutorial before I got a handle on the orders system. Now I am more comfortable with how it all works.
Thanks!
BlitzCanuck
Pretend Command Sgt. Maj.
I'm getting there too. I'm becoming rather fond of the 'engage' command for tank platoons. seems to give subordinates a bit more flexibility at the start of the reaction phase.
carl_render
Member
I gave up on it really quickly having completely failed to get to grips with the orders system, but having read these posts I will have another go.
mOBIUS
Member
Think of it as following the chain of command downwards. You give orders to the platoon CO, which gives all subunits that command. Then if you want go to any or all subunits and alter their path or the target.
Elmar Bijlsma
Recruit
That whole platoon things is bugging me. It seems to add very little but is a hassle to deal with if I want to guide one of the subordinate units to a given location while the rest remains in place.
Just let me click on the guy I want moved without going though the Co. How it is now I apparently must prevent the rest of the platoon from relocating as I order that one out of place unit to where it should be through the CO.
It seems such an unneeded hassle that I think I am missing something. What does it add? What am I doing wrong?
It seems to move just unit X I must select HQ>give unneeded move order>select unit X>give desired move order>select HQ again plus unit Y and Z>cancel unneeded orders to have them remain in place.
That is so very weird and awkward.
Aside from that I like how the game plays, so far. I will put the demo though it's paces a bit more to see what I can make this puppy do, though.
GUI not the most informative/detailed out there, but it will do.
In the inevitable comparison to Combat Mission, it would appear Panzer Command has some catching up to do in the combat portrayal department.
But I am impressed by the games overall feature lists, especially stuff like the campaigns. Seems to offer a lot of freedom and longevity. This is where you guys seem to come out tops by a large margin.
I think I might see my way to coughing up coin for this game.
Just let me click on the guy I want moved without going though the Co. How it is now I apparently must prevent the rest of the platoon from relocating as I order that one out of place unit to where it should be through the CO.
It seems such an unneeded hassle that I think I am missing something. What does it add? What am I doing wrong?
It seems to move just unit X I must select HQ>give unneeded move order>select unit X>give desired move order>select HQ again plus unit Y and Z>cancel unneeded orders to have them remain in place.
That is so very weird and awkward.
Aside from that I like how the game plays, so far. I will put the demo though it's paces a bit more to see what I can make this puppy do, though.
GUI not the most informative/detailed out there, but it will do.
In the inevitable comparison to Combat Mission, it would appear Panzer Command has some catching up to do in the combat portrayal department.
But I am impressed by the games overall feature lists, especially stuff like the campaigns. Seems to offer a lot of freedom and longevity. This is where you guys seem to come out tops by a large margin.
I think I might see my way to coughing up coin for this game.
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ERutins
Member
Hi Elmar,
Regards,
- Erik
They won't all move unless you are changing the platoon Base order. For example, if the platoon is set to Defend and you change them to Rush, then they will all initially follow the path set for the HQ and try to stay in formation. Once you get used to this, it actually speeds things up. If however the platoon was set to Defend and you told the HQ to Defend -> Move, the rest would not follow unless you used the Shift key to tell them that you wanted it to be a platoon-wide order. The most flexible order is Engage, which allows some vehicles or squads to be stationary, others to move and others to fire. If your whole platoon is set to Engage orders, changing to one of the sub-orders will not affect anyone but the individual vehicle or squad you are ordering (again, unless you use the Shift key).
Glad to hear you are having some fun! The orders can definitely be non-intuitive, but once you get used to the idea the rest of the game opens up. I hope you enjoy the rest of the demo and join us for the full game.
Regards,
- Erik
Elmar Bijlsma
Recruit
I must admit that I failed to RTFM. So yeah, I probably was doing it all wrong. But no, novice friendly the UI is not. No doubt once I unlock its secrets it will prove worth it.
KG_Jag
KG Vice Kommandir
I can't quarrel with that, but both are a step or more back from CM x 1, which is still the gold standard for tactical (and especially 3D tactical) computer wargames.
junk2drive
Member
The biggest problem we had with the previous versions was getting people to not think CM when playing PC. Even I had that problem when I first started. Second biggest was that once they got over that, they still didn't like the game. But there were some that loved PC and didn't ever care for CM. Hopefully the improvements will be enough for some of you to at least give it a chance.
KG_Jag
KG Vice Kommandir
Fair enough, especially on light of the fact that Matrix is providing me with a free fully upgraded game.