Delay

MadDog_CDN

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Hello

This has me confused.

First I read that it is for Platoon movement, so that all tanks can stay within MP's.

Then I read on here that it is also allowed when you stop a vehicle.

The last time I read this, today stated I am allowed to use it when I for firing.

Is there a clear explanation of delay around?

Or am I not reading the rules correctly?
 
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SamB

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As I understand it, a vehicle must use all it's MPs each turn. IOW, if you have 14 MP, then you will spend no less than 14 when you move.

You can delay - any vehicle can do this, not just those using platoon movement. You might do it to spend more time in LOS for bounding fire. Or, you might delay while out of LOS of that nasty ATG so he can't see you for more than 2MPs when you move into his LOS and stop.

You can also choose to spend more than the minimum number of MPs to enter a location or perform some action. Open ground is 1MP for fully tracked (disregarding weather, towing, etc). But you can announce that you're going to spend 3 or 5 MPs to enter the hex.

It may not seem important, but the armor game is all about getting that +1 or -1 better than your opponent.

Sam
 

synicbast

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Outside of Platoon Movement, only vehicles that have expended a MP to stop can expend delay points, IIRC.
 

Ole Boe

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SamB said:
As I understand it, a vehicle must use all it's MPs each turn. IOW, if you have 14 MP, then you will spend no less than 14 when you move.
Generally correct, but if you have a couple of MP left and one of the forward hexes costs more than this, you may end the AFV in Motion without spending the last couple of MF (D2.4).

Also, an AFV in a platoon, that have more MP than the other AFV of the platoon doesn't get to expend its additional MP.

But generally, you're correct. Unlike Infantry who can spend only 1 MF during a MPh, an AFV must generally spend all its MP.

SamB said:
You can delay - any vehicle can do this, not just those using platoon movement. You might do it to spend more time in LOS for bounding fire. Or, you might delay while out of LOS of that nasty ATG so he can't see you for more than 2MPs when you move into his LOS and stop.
...or you may do it after a BFF shot, because one MP must be expended between each BFF shot. The important restriction though, is that only Stopped AFV can expend delay MP (D2.17). Note that technically, an AFV of a platoon that does nothing during an Impulse, is not using Delay. It is simply doing nothing while expending the same number of MP as the other AFV of the platoon. It doesn't matter if one call this delay, except that it may confuse some players since the platoon AFV can do this while Non-Stopped.

If a Non-Stopped AFV needs to "delay", it must Stop, delay and then Start, or it may change VCA back and forth a couple of times until the desired number of MP are spent.


SamB said:
You can also choose to spend more than the minimum number of MPs to enter a location or perform some action. Open ground is 1MP for fully tracked (disregarding weather, towing, etc). But you can announce that you're going to spend 3 or 5 MPs to enter the hex.
This is correct (D2.18).
 

Bjoernar

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Hi guys



Is this a sleeze or possible?

Assume an early T-34 (17 MPs in red) in brush hex and there is a woods hex and another OG in the adjacent VCA. And you have e.g. 3 MP left in the brush hex and you want to end your MPh in motion in the current hex but you don't want to stop and start due to the red MP.

Is it then possible to (if possible) declare that you would enter the wood hex that you lack the necessary MPs to enter (even if you do not really want to enter the wood hex), instead of the other adjacent OG hex and then end in Motion?



Bjørnar
 

synicbast

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Not possible, but an alternate option is to change VCA until you have expended the necessary Mopvement points to remian legitimitely in the hex and in motion. the downside is that you may need to change TCA to keep any potential enemy armour within your MA TCA and you may inadvertently have presented your side hull facing to a potential enemy Gun.
 

Bjoernar

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Hi


It appears to me that there is no demands in D2.4 that both the two adjacent hexes in the VCA have to be not possible to enter with the remaining MPs. Lets say the T-34 is already in a Bog hex. You do not wan't to take several Bog checks just to end in motion. This last sentence is of course not a good argument but something you would like to avoid.



Bjørnar
 

Ole Boe

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Bjoernar said:
Is it then possible to (if possible) declare that you would enter the wood hex that you lack the necessary MPs to enter (even if you do not really want to enter the wood hex), instead of the other adjacent OG hex and then end in Motion?
Yes, I don't see why this "sleaze" shouldn't be fully legal - and pretty unsleazy as well if you ask me.

D2.4 says: "A vehicle may end its MPh in Motion without expending all of its MP only if it has insufficient MP remaining to enter the next hex it wishes to enter."

So you may say: "I now wish to enter the woods hex, but has insufficient MP remaining", and the AFV will then end its MPh in Motion without expending the remaining MP.

This wish is of course (IMHO) not tying you to any action for the next MPh one full Player Turn ahead, so when that MPh comes your AFV is free to enter the OG hex for 1 MP, or you may want it to do some entirely different action now.
 

synicbast

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Ole Boe said:
Yes, I don't see why this "sleaze" shouldn't be fully legal - and pretty unsleazy as well if you ask me.

D2.4 says: "A vehicle may end its MPh in Motion without expending all of its MP only if it has insufficient MP remaining to enter the next hex it wishes to enter."
Chalk up another part of the rules I've been playing wrong.:OHNO:
 

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Ole Boe said:
If a Non-Stopped AFV needs to "delay", it must Stop, delay and then Start
And chalk up another part that I've been playing wrong...I didn't realise you had to stop in order to delay..... Guess I'll just use the "extra MPs to enter a hex" from now on if I don't want to expend MPs in LOS!

Cheers

Ian
 

alanp

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When entering the Brush hex, why not just declare 5MPs spent instead of 2?

The Defensive Fire DRMs are going to be the same, right?
 

Fred Ingram

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MrP said:
And chalk up another part that I've been playing wrong...I didn't realise you had to stop in order to delay..... Guess I'll just use the "extra MPs to enter a hex" from now on if I don't want to expend MPs in LOS!

Cheers

Ian
It is effectively the same thing (and makes more sense than the crab walk VCA turning thingy mentioned above) to burn MP's

Don't know why people get thier undies in a bundle about this
 

cryophobia

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Hi people,

What is the rational of only being able to delay once stopped?

Then, D2.1 one states that “A vehical may expend up to its full MP allotment…” this does not sound to me as an AFV must spend all his MP in a turn? What am I missing?

Chris
 

mgmasl

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cryophobia said:
Hi people,

What is the rational of only being able to delay once stopped?

Then, D2.1 one states that “A vehical may expend up to its full MP allotment…” this does not sound to me as an AFV must spend all his MP in a turn? What am I missing?

Chris
Hello

Remember you can expend more MPs to enter a hex than needed. You can drive slowly, but you have to announce that when entering the hex -EX. 5 MPs to enter an open ground hex--.
The delay before entering it,s only possible when stopped, or by changing vca right and left--

Miguel.
 

McFinn

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I'll take a stab at shedding some light on some ASL minutae

The Delay while stopped usually has an effect on how you the player move your vech to impose bad DRM's on your opponents To Hit rolls.

AlanP says..
When entering the Brush hex, why not just declare 5MPs spent instead of 2?

The Defensive Fire DRMs are going to be the same, right?​

Lets say the hex after the Brush hex is out of LOS of the AT shooting at you. (and your intention is to end up in the brush hex anyway)

If you state you spend the 5 MP's as you move in (your opponent will know you will end up in the brush hex and) the AT gun will wait to shoot at you until the 4th MP so as to avoid the extra + DRM mods on the to hit.

If you, state you spend the 2 MP's entering the brush hex your opponenet is not sure if you will end your MPH in that hex (you have 3 MP's left) so he might take a shot with the extra +DRMs and hopefully missing and losing ROF. Now you (moving the vech) can decide to stop, and delay in the hex or just state you desire to move into the woods thus staying in the brush hex in motion. or move to the out of los hex (a good idea if the AT gun kept ROF!)

Alot of compexity to draw out an opponents shot.. or force unfavorable mods, but its a part of the game alot of players enjoy.

Chris says..

What is the rational of only being able to delay once stopped?

Then, D2.1 one states that “A vehical may expend up to its full MP allotment…” this does not sound to me as an AFV must spend all his MP in a turn? What am I missing?​

Not sure of the rational for the delay on once stopped, but the equivilant while moving is to expend more MP's than needed to enter each hex. It really makes for some complex and subtle interaction between moving and the DRM's you're allowing the defender on his Defensive fire shots.

Further down in D2.1 it says "...A vehicle which ends its MPh with MP remaining is assumed to use all those MP in that hex." So for all practical purposes the vech does expend all its MP's

So if you are moving out of los of an enemy and the last hex you enter is going to be in enemy los, you may want to delay or expend more MP's than needed before moving into the enemy los to impose the = DRM's on the enemys To Hit DR.

Hope this helped a bit.
 
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Ole Boe

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alanp said:
When entering the Brush hex, why not just declare 5MPs spent instead of 2?
The player may have intended to move on, before a HIP Gun or something made him change his mind, or he may just have forgot it - or he may want to minimize the number of DFF opportunities and maximize TH DRM, or minimize the Motion dr of an enemy AFV. Or something else...

The Defensive Fire DRMs are going to be the same, right?
During Final Fire: yes, but during First Fire: no. If the AFV only spent 2 MP to enter the Brush, enemy ordnance that had LOS to this hex only, will need to use J1 instead of J during First Fire. Of course, they may always use J (and not J1/J2) during Final Fire, but there may be reasons that the enemy need to fire now - one of them being the possibility of the AFV movig to a new hex out of its LOS.
 
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Ole Boe

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cryophobia said:
What is the rational of only being able to delay once stopped?
Probably that delay is to stand completely still for a while. Something you don't when you're moving forward (which Non-Stopped means)...

Then, D2.1 one states that “A vehical may expend up to its full MP allotment…” this does not sound to me as an AFV must spend all his MP in a turn? What am I missing
You're missing the two first sentences of D2.4: "Any Mobile vehicle (including a boat or amphibian) which has used its entire printed MP allotment during its MPh, without expending a MP to Stop (2.13) or Delay (2.17) at the end of that MPh, is considered in Motion and covered with a Motion counter. A vehicle may end its MPh in Motion without expending all of its MP only if it has insufficient MP remaining to enter the next hex it wishes to enter."
 

cryophobia

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Ole Boe said:
Probably that delay is to stand completely still for a while. Something you don't when you're moving forward (which Non-Stopped means)...

You're missing the two first sentences of D2.4: "Any Mobile vehicle (including a boat or amphibian) which has used its entire printed MP allotment during its MPh, without expending a MP to Stop (2.13) or Delay (2.17) at the end of that MPh, is considered in Motion and covered with a Motion counter. A vehicle may end its MPh in Motion without expending all of its MP only if it has insufficient MP remaining to enter the next hex it wishes to enter."
Thanks Ole.
 

MadDog_CDN

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Ole Boe said:
Probably that delay is to stand completely still for a while. Something you don't when you're moving forward (which Non-Stopped means)...

You're missing the two first sentences of D2.4: "Any Mobile vehicle (including a boat or amphibian) which has used its entire printed MP allotment during its MPh, without expending a MP to Stop (2.13) or Delay (2.17) at the end of that MPh, is considered in Motion and covered with a Motion counter. A vehicle may end its MPh in Motion without expending all of its MP only if it has insufficient MP remaining to enter the next hex it wishes to enter."
Ole

If I read this correctly, if I delay at any point in my MPh I may NOT retain motion at the end of my MPh, is this correct?

How then would this affect platoon movement?
 

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MadDog_CDN said:
If I read this correctly, if I delay at any point in my MPh I may NOT retain motion at the end of my MPh, is this correct?
No, that's not correct. The rules section you quoted says "without expending a MP to Stop (2.13) or Delay (2.17) at the end of that MPh" In other words, if it's the end of an AFV's MPh and it doesn't spend a Stop or a Delay MP as its final MP expenditure, then it remains in motion.
 
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