That's good stuff, Morbii. I want to keep this discussion going because I find the relationship between art (in all its forms) and politics/worldview to be a fascinating and informative. In my experience, the kind of music a person listens to says much about them and their interests. I think the same can be said about other forms of art. In other words, if you were to go through my music collection, my art collection, and the art I have personally done, you would know a lot about me.
This does make a lot of sense to me too. But (as you explain below), I don't think it shows the whole picture. Knowing I listen to this type of music may just mean that I like the sounds of extreme music. It may also mean I have issues with depression (given some of the nature). Or it could mean I'm evil. I'll take a combination of the first two (though, if part 2, it's probably more of a driver than a being
cause of). I'm also more or less a misanthropist myself
when it comes to humanity. I like people (I don't think I hate ANYONE in specific), but humanity itself is just pure evil - I have experienced this fact over and over.
On the flip side, I HAVE, in my life, met a dude that was originally into stuff like Opeth. I saw him every few months (he was going to the school I was) and I saw him get into more mainstream BM (well, I think right around when he started listening to that is really where I met him) and eventually delve into the really crazy raw, underground stuff. For that guy, I think it was *different*. He was more like you described in that the music seemed to really control him. HOWEVER, as you also allude, certainly there are Dead Heads that became acid freaks and those that didn't. If you saw me walking down the street, you wouldn't know that one of my favorite musical genres was black metal (and, that's DEFINITELY not the only genre I listen to!).
There is definitely some overlap, but then all metal genres share at least a few common elements. While there is heavy use of distortion and bass and an overall dark vibe, I find Saturnus to be a very, very different animal than, say, Peste noire. It's kind of like saying AC/DC and Guns 'n Roses sound similar because they're both rock bands.
I agree that it's different, but just like AC/DC and Guns & Roses aren't
polar opposites... well, you get the point. Though, this is really just semantics, I think.
I only have one song from them, called Doom Over Dead Man. It's sort of okay, but I need to listen to some of their other stuff to know if I like them.
I have to be honest, their last few albums have been REALLY weak as compared to some of their earlier stuff.
Twilight of the Thunder God was a HUGE disappointment. I think
Surtur Rising was an improvement to that one, but you gotta go before that to really hear their amazing stuff. I suggest this (and it even fits into the death metal theme of the thread!):
[video=youtube;VY1doMZrq10]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY1doMZrq10[/video]
Stuff like Type O Negative's Suspended in Dusk is getting way too out there for me. I like dark and I like end of the world themes, but that's getting just a bit too over the top for my tastes. The truth is, I'm one of those guys who tends to like one or two tunes from a given band, which is part of the reason my iTunes collection is so diverse and wild. There are exceptions to that rule, but they're few and far between.
Interesting. I often like all or most of certain albums. And my iTunes is no slouch (though, it mostly comes from ripped CDs). I don't mean to portray that I *only* like black metal. Recently I've gotten into some Japanese psychadelic rock, Spanish boroque (with Lutes), some classical, noise pop/rock (TOTALLY different from what the moniker invokes), and even guitar-driven tribal music from Africa (which, the first time I spun a disk from the band
Group Doueh, I had GOOSE BUMPS). Lately I've been on this HUGE musical exploration. It's been pretty intense.
I generally listen to music for the music and tend to ignore the lyrics most of the time. I either don't understand what the author's point was or I don't care. Take Pink Floyd's The Wall album. Roger Waters is a great songwriter and gets really deep with all his existential self-discovery, anti-authority stuff, but the truth is I have no idea what the hell Roger was really trying to say. Seriously. And I don't dwell on it too much, I just love the melodies and Gilmour's brilliant guitar solos. And AC/DC's music is always about three things: girls, partying, and hard rock. But I still love it, even though some people say it's formulaic and simple. Sometimes simple is good.
And yes, I realize I just contradicted myself by saying I'm interested in how art and music relate to worldview and then went on to say I couldn't care less about lyrics. I'll let you know when I figure that out. I guess it's fair to say I care about the lyrics and overall message once it reaches a certain critical mass where the politics and culture of the music become one with the music. Peste noire is a good example of that, I think. That stuff is pretty fringe, man.
I think that's mostly my point too. I don't care much about the lyrics. Ok, I take that back somewhat. Sometimes I will take pause and
care, but I usually don't bother looking at them (at least when it comes to BM) because I don't
really want to know. I think the harshness and vocal style of this music can allow one to do that more easily, too, since you often don't know what they're saying (and, doubly so if it's not even in English -- for me anyway). Recently, I was listening to a track from this really great album I picked up. This CD was playing nonstop for a few days. I thought I heard something in particular and went to look at the lyrics. Sure enough, it was pretty fricken bad. While I still do like the music, I think I've only played that disc
once since then.
As far as the critical mass, I think death metal can also have similar followings. But let's not stop there: look at stuff like Grateful Dead even. Look at Justin Beiber and Britney Spears! Some people just listen to the music, other people start dressing like whores. So, I think a LOT of music can do that. I think it probably depends on the person. I'm also sort of thinking that it might even SEEM that way moreso with extreme metal simply because it CAN be offensive.
But what about horror films (or even non-horror films)? Though, to contradict myself, I suppose it also depends on the intent of the director/writer.
I agree that PN is pretty fringe, and I know what they're about, but, frankly, I don't know what they're saying and
I don't want to. The music itself is phenominal and I don't want to ruin it by knowing.
As per above, I do take issue with it sometimes (and maybe more than I'm letting on). I think mostly I'm just numb to it, though.
Okay, but I would like to hear more on this. Are you talking about the really fringe, hardcore anti-Christian, anti-authority stuff with blood onstage and all that, or were you going in a different direction? If so, what do you think the "something" you referred to above is? What are these people rebelling against?
Yes, that was more or less what I was referring to -- well, sort of. I was thinking second wave black metal, like Dark Throne and bands like that (they may have had blood, I'm not sure). I wasn't referring to the NS crap, which I'm sure comes from somewhere and something as well, but it's probably far, FAR more misguided. If you look at some of these bands from Norway and think about all the church burnings and whatnot: some of this comes out of what happened in the past in that country. So-called "Christians" coming in and spreading the word through the sword. It has a lasting effect on a culture. Dont' get me wrong: I am NOT against Christianity in any way (in fact, I am one). I am simply saying that I can sort of understand where some of the hate comes from. HOWEVER (since I realize what your next point will be), this happened LONG ago. It's not also something that Jesus would have approved of. I agree. Get over it.
Maybe some of it also hearkens similar to Lavey's movement in the 60's (which, as I'm sure you know, still exists - many of the euro bands clash with his ideas, btw). You have people that don't want to give in to the feelings of the majority, so they "rebel".
I hate to say any art shouldn't exist, even the intolerable. But I do find a lot of the bizarre stuff that some metal bands fall into more than a bit repellant. I like dark art and end of the world themes as much as the next guy, however, when it gets mixed up in overtly anti-religious zealotry and racism and crazy fringe behavior, then I lose interest.
Yes, I understand. It took me a long time to come to peace with some of it - I don't like many of the themes either. For a long time I stayed away from most of it, too. I guess during some of my exploration I've, well, grown a bit numb and expanded my horizons while coming to peace with liking just the music itself.
HOWEVER, sadly I don't think it's just the BM scene that is involved here. MANY, many thrash and death metal bands have the same themes and the same hatred. Some elements of the punk and hardcore scene could EASILY be seen the same way as well. I think there are some big groups from the experimental, IDM, and electronic realms, too (Lustmord, for example?). Hell, even take a look at modern "normal" music like NIN or Marylin Manson. BM is
often way more overt about it, but there are plenty of other examples to choose from, I think.
edit:
As far as my bi-polar theory, I think it makes some sense. I have a few friends that are seriously, hardcore bi-polar. I've seen what it can do (in fact, one of them is very much into BM). I've also seen pictures of BM artists with slit wrists. Suicides happen here and there. There are plenty of suicidal BM bands, etc.
edit2:
You know, I also want to go back to your original point some. While I don't agree with the majority of what many of these artists have to say, I will say this:
1. I have a very dark sense of humor. VERY dark. While I don't think that many of the things that I will joke about are actually, truly funny, it's an outlet for this cruel world, I guess.
2. I am, in some ways, fascinated with "death". Skulls, skeletons and the like (but I don't take this to an extreme).
3. I do like dark, end of the world themes. Hell, I WISH there was a zombie attack!
So, maybe this is partly the missing link. I view the above as pretty much harmless and certainly not hateful. But yeah, it IS dark. And maybe that's what drives me to like some of this music, even if I can't identify with the lyrical content.