DC effect vs concealed

[mgmasl]

I remember the effect of the DC is halved per Area Fire when the defender is halved at the moment of placing the DC. Ie if the concealed defender D1F vs the unit placing the DC the effect of the DC is still halved.. I suppose the same when placing a DC to breach a hexside, I mean the halved or full FP is based on the concealment state of the defender at the exact moment the MFs are spent to place the DC.. where can I find a Perry Sez about this question?

Thanks

 

[peterd1973]

A23.1 doesn't answer the question?

 

[Pyth]

I remember the effect of the DC is halved per Area Fire when the defender is halved at the moment of placing the DC. Ie if the concealed defender D1F vs the unit placing the DC the effect of the DC is still halved.. I suppose the same when placing a DC to breach a hexside, I mean the halved or full FP is based on the concealment state of the defender at the exact moment the MFs are spent to place the DC.. where can I find a Perry Sez about this question?

Thanks

Are you sure about the part in blue? As I read the DC rules it looks to me like the DC isn't "operably placed" until after the D1F. And as the firing unit would lose concealment when it fires; I don't think the 1/2 halving applies.

A23.3...Should the Placing unit survive (unbroken and unpinned, even if newly berserk) all enemy Defensive First Fire, Subsequent First Fire, and FPF in the Placement Hex (including any resulting from the expenditure of MF in the Placement of that DC), the weapon is considered operably Placed.

I believe concealed units in the target area would not cause 1/2 effects vs building for rubble (and breach) -- which also makes a lot sense IMO......

A 23.1... Concealment-caused Area Fire does not apply when determining the possibility of Rubble Creation (B24.11)

 

[Pyth]

Actually the Breach process is different than I remembered but it's pretty clearly spelled out in:

B23.711 if the DC detonates, it will Breach the wall with any NMC or better result on the IFT and, using the same Original IFT DR, will attack any units in the corresponding adjacent Rowhouse Location as Area Fire (12 FP if unconcealed, 6 FP if concealed) with full TEM

So the attack is 1/2'd twice if enemy on the other side of the breach are concealed. But the result against the wall being breached is full strength... again I think this is all intuitive except perhaps for the concealed unit getting that second halving.

 

[jrv]

A23.1 seems pretty clear, "It is not subject to FP modification for PBF/TPBF, usie in the AFPh, or any form of Area Fire other than concealment at the time the DC is Thrown/operably-Placed."

JR

 

[Pyth]

A23.1 seems pretty clear, "It is not subject to FP modification for PBF/TPBF, usie in the AFPh, or any form of Area Fire other than concealment at the time the DC is Thrown/operably-Placed."

JR

A23.1 is clear, except that the Breach rules contradict it, or at least amend it... Look at the B23.711 rule I cited -- the DC is will attack the units in the "corresponding adjacent rowhouse location as Area Fire" -- the unconcealed unit is attacked at 1/2 FP, the concealed at 1/4. What is certain is that the DC operates against the building/terrain full strength, which I believe was the OP's original question if I understood him correctly (although I'm not entirely confident I did.)

 

[klasmalmstrom]

If the targets of the DC placement are concealed and drop that concealment to fire at the placing unit vs the MF expended to place the DC, the DC is not halved.

 

[mgmasl]

I’m sure because there is a clearification anywhere.. So I suppose the same for breaching DC.. IMHO the only concealment that has any sense is this one referred to the placing unit at the moment of placement.. is similar to the target aspect of an AFV vs a placed DC, the used for DRMs is the one from the placing unit when the unit placed the DC, even if the AFV reacts changing VCA/TCA to fire on the placing unit because this MF expenditure.. also clearification about this point anywhere.. ?

 

[mgmasl]

If the targets of the DC placement are concealed and drop that concealment to fire at the placing unit vs the MF expended to place the DC, the DC is not halved.

There is no an old question and answer about this point?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

There is no an old question and answer about this point?

I don't think so. But I don't think one is needed.

A23.1:
"It is not subject to FP modification for PBF/TPBF, use in the AFPh, or for any form of Area Fire other than concealment at the time the DC is Thrown/operably-Placed (or detonated if Set). "

A23.3:
"Should the Placing unit survive (unbroken and unpinned, even if newly berserk) all enemy Defensive First Fire, Subsequent First Fire, and FPF in the Placement Hex (including any resulting from the expenditure of MF in the Placement of that DC), the weapon is considered operably Placed."


Edit: actually found an old unofficial Q&A:

A23.1 If a Concealed target of a placed DC attempt drops Concealment to defensive first fire
on the placing unit, and if the DC is then ‘operably placed,' will the (AFPh) DC attack
resolve as Area Fire, or at full strength?
A. Full FP. It is ‘operably placed’ after all DFF vs. placer. [Letter32]

32) ASLML, 23 November 1999