DB 130 TIGERS AND FLAMES set up question

[Markdv5208]

Ok getting ready to play this one as the Germans vs. Larry Zoet and his Russians....

The German `1a forces set up concealed in concealment terrain. Does that apply to the German forces on boards 56 & 57 as well?

I think yes...but I could also see no...I'm 60/40 on this one and I'm not playing until Wednesday Dec 28 so I thought I'd ask now...

Mark DV
Ada, MI

 

[Jazz]

Ok getting ready to play this one as the Germans vs. Larry Zoet and his Russians....

The German `1a forces set up concealed in concealment terrain. Does that apply to the German forces on boards 56 & 57 as well?

I think yes...but I could also see no...I'm 60/40 on this one and I'm not playing until Wednesday Dec 28 so I thought I'd ask now...

Mark DV
Ada, MI

Russ Curry and I played it as "no". Don't recall the details of the SSR wording, but if memory serves, it seemed that the only reference to concealment was mentioned specifically about the 1a forces.

It was a question though so it could be called out better in the SSRs......

 

[Markdv5208]

that's why I like these forums. At a tourney, you'd ask the director or players that are equal, more experienced to you or in my case on the take for a $20 bill.....ok seriously it's good to ask around. IF you're right, and I"m 40% with you on that, then, it's rough on the German defenders.......

 

[volgaG68]

I agree with Jazz. The free concealment setup instructions seem to only apply to the units in the hashed box that setup on 1a. The forward forces have their own '?' allotment. One of my faves of the year, btw.

 

[Philippe D.]

Same here, the setup instructions seem pretty clear to me. The first box units get free concealment, the rearguard units get their own "?" counters but no free lunch.

Currently playing this on VASL (as the Russians). The rearguard Germans are really there as the sacrificial lamb until the heavy cavalry arrives; if they manage to make one of the OT34s empty their FT tanks early, good for them, but they're not going to manage much more than that. OK, in my game the PaK 40 is still going during Russian turn 3, but that's just my lousy play.

 

[Jazz]

t...... then, it's rough on the German defenders.......

We played it to the end and it was a 1 building game on the last turn, with about 4 hail mary moves that might have opened a path to taking one more building.....but they were very low odds hail marys and it was not winnable in the CC phase.

There were good and bad dice on both sides, but the Russian on balance got the worst of the dice due to bad rolls at important junctures. All in all, a balanced scenario IMMHO.

 

[buser333]

This is one of the best scenarios I have ever played.

 

[Jazz]

This is one of the best scenarios I have ever played.

<shrug> Cold Crocs is better IMMHO. Urban Apes as well as a number of other Shelling creations as well.... Still, it is a petty good scenario.

 

[Michael R]

In my playing of this scenario, the OT-34 tanks ruled the battlefield and made the scenario feel one-sided. Unfortunately I was the German player.

 

[Jazz]

In my playing of this scenario, the OT-34 tanks ruled the battlefield and made the scenario feel one-sided. Unfortunately I was the German player.

I only got one burn from one of them...which was enough to get me into the town, but not much more. The others either ran out of gas and/or got nailed by the AT gun. PF with range 1 are in play. There was an extremely well-placed AT gun along with, as I recall, a couple Stugs(?). I broke a fair number of tank guns as well.

 

[Paul S NJ]

I played this with Ron Duenskie and had a fun, close game. My gun and up front stug each bagged one t34 before being overwhelmed. The Tigers hunted flame tanks and vice-versa. The armor and guns effectively neutralized each other (Ron had one spare t34) and it came down to a CC infantry fest with a timely snake eyes in the last building for me. It's definitely a challenging scenario for both sides with the chance for the armor battle to swing hard either way early. Lots of replay value. I'd recommend it.
Paul

 

[Eagle4ty]

Hi Mark,
Curtis Brooks & I are about to have at this one as well and the same question crossed my mind (I'm the Russkies). There was no way I was going to allow him to set up his non- bd1a forces with free concealment for the same reasons as stated above. My take is when it calls out a specific board to have have concealment automatically, it precludes other units from doing so and they must gain concealment as usual for forces of both sides setting up on-board. (Go Larry!:jig

 

[Markdv5208]

Hi Mark,
Curtis Brooks & I are about to have at this one as well and the same question crossed my mind (I'm the Russkies). There was no way I was going to allow him to set up his non- bd1a forces with free concealment for the same reasons as stated above. My take is when it calls out a specific board to have have concealment automatically, it precludes other units from doing so and they must gain concealment as usual for forces of both sides setting up on-board. (Go Larry!:jig

And it seems that the consesus is with your interpretation of the rules, hence that's what I will follow with Larry Zoet on Wednesday.

IN unrelated news I am NOT going to the ASL open this year. Starting on Thursday makes sense but if I'm going to miss that much school, I want it to be for ASLOK...

 

[Eagle4ty]

Too bad brother, we'll miss ya for certain, though we had some of the same concerns especially for Hicks & "Cpt America" Rogers.:dontknow

 

[Markdv5208]

JUST to pick the brains of those who have played this one...

The forces on boards 56 & 57....are they meant to stand burn a turn and die? Or try and run and die another day?

I am thinking try and run.....except the PaK 75...he stays and dies.

 

[Doug Kirk]

JUST to pick the brains of those who have played this one...

The forces on boards 56 & 57....are they meant to stand burn a turn and die? Or try and run and die another day?

I am thinking try and run.....except the PaK 75...he stays and dies.

They are going to die, there is no getting back. Perhaps on the Russian left side, a German might slip back, but not on the Russian right where the reinforcements enter, those Germans are mere speed bumps.

FYI, I don't think the Germans need the balance of the upgraded ATG per the Open list.

 

[Tom Morin]

JUST to pick the brains of those who have played this one...

The forces on boards 56 & 57....are they meant to stand burn a turn and die? Or try and run and die another day?

I am thinking try and run.....except the PaK 75...he stays and dies.

They are speed bumps meant to burn time. Good luck trying to extricate any of them, the Russian horde is unlikely to let this happen.

If you are able to, you get a cookie. And, a panzerfaust to help defend the village (....HERE! Take this and hold THAT building over there........)

;-)

Tom

 

[Markdv5208]

GREAT scenario. Larry said he misused his flame tanks. WHEN he conceded, the SU122 was recalled, one T34 was left, and all the other tanks were burning or KOd. I lost both StuGs, and had one Tiger 1 with a MALFd MA. He had his troops in the village in force, but without tanks to support he felt it was a lost cause. IT didn't help him that when I called for APCR I rolled 4s or a 5. OR I was getting ROF with my Tigers. As a side note-ROF with a 9-2 armor leader is pretty sexy cool in ASL....
I had just re sat thru the movie THE BEAST and was thinking of the scene early on in the movie where the tank platoon was devastating the village....thats what my Tigers did.

Oh and the forces that were the speed bump? That's exactly what they did...just a bump at best.