DASH

SFiedler

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Dash, is it allowed? see picture below

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  1. from T7 to V6
  2. from T7 to U6
Can shellholes be used as protection in the dash dash in these cases?
 
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von Marwitz

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T6 has Cliff hexsides... So no Dash.

You would need some dash to attempt it, but I reckon, you would end up quite dashed at the foot of the Cliff... ;)

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Vinnie

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T7 to both would be ok, I think.
I don't think you can use shellholes while dashing.
 

Binchois

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Shellholes cannot be used since units making a Dash can only expend 1MF in the road itself (nor spend more than its total MFs).

Meanwhile, I assume you mean T7. Nothing stops you from making a Dash so long as you obey the MF restrictions. What qualifies the unit for Dash benefits its only whether the starting point and finishing point counts as OG to the Firer. If they both are NOT OG to the fire - or if either point is out of LOS - then the move counts as a Dash to that Firer.
 

von Marwitz

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  1. from T6 to V6
  2. from T6 to U6
Of course, you mean T7.

T7 to V6 would allow Dash because you would have to cross the road depiction in any case.
T7 to U6 would not allow Dash IMHO because in this case you would not actually have to cross a road depiction.

A4.63 DASH: Infantry may declare a Dash through a road Location if it declares a Dash move to a particular location prior to moving, and then moves from a non-Open Ground Location on one side of the road directly into the road and then directly into a non-Open Ground Location on the other side of the road provided the normal MF expenditure for this two-hex move is ≤ the unit's available MF. For purposes of determining the legality of a Dash move, any Location out of the LOS of a firer is also considered a non-Open Ground Location.

von Marwitz
 

Vinnie

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Definite no to usingntge shellholes

The Dashing unit may not have expended any MF prior to the Dash [EXC: SMOKE grenade placement attempt; 24.1], may expend no MF in the road or the Dashed-to location beyond the minimum required to enter, and must end its MPh in the non-Open Ground Location it Dashed to (unless it becomes berserk, pinned, broken or wounded in the road Location, or otherwise unable to enter the Dashed-to Location, in which case Dash benefits immediately cease)
 

Binchois

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T7 to U6 would not allow Dash IMHO because in this case you would not actually have to cross a road depiction.
Interesting point! A Dash does need to cross from one side of a road to the other. But intersections do complicate matters. I would say that if neither T7 nor U6 is OG (or in LOS) to the Firer, than it is a DASH across the NW-to-SE running road.

Addendum: There is a Q&A confirming this:

Q. (A4.63) Can units dash through a hex in which the road ends? Can units dash across a road intersection? (For example, consider hex 20Y2. If Z1 and Y3 were considered non-Open ground Locations for some reason, could a unit dash from X2 to Z1, crossing the Y1-Y2-Y3 road? From Y1 to Y3, crossing the Z1-Y2-X2 road? From X2 to Y1? From Y3 to Z1?)​

A. Yes to both, as long as the unit is crossing from one side of the road to the other. (Yes to all.) [Compil8]​
 
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klasmalmstrom

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T7 to V6 would allow Dash because you would have to cross the road depiction in any case.
T7 to U6 would not allow Dash IMHO because in this case you would not actually have to cross a road depiction.
That's my take as well. T7->U6 doesn't seem to cross a road IMO.
 

Binchois

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That's my take as well. T7->U6 doesn't seem to cross a road IMO.
But referring to the Q&A (possibly older, but I see no reason to disregard it), if neither T7 nor U6 was a road hex, than it would be a dash across the end of a road - which is legal according to the Q&A. So long as neither of these hexes is in LOS to the firer, than I think the same thing applies whether or not there is a road in those hexes. Or would you still disagree in this case?

t7 IS OPEN GROUND OR NOT?
This depends upon the position of the firer. The wall might interfere (making it not OG) or the hex might be out-of-LOS, so it's a moot point.

BTW, all Russian fire appears that it would pass through FFE LOS hindrances. Is this hindrance enough to cancel "Open Ground" to these oh-so-dashing German men? I think so.
 
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SFiedler

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Javanabal, for our game´s purpose this discussion can be ignored. Use modified moves in log 63.
 
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Eagle4ty

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But referring to the Q&A (possibly older, but I see no reason to disregard it), if neither T7 nor U6 was a road hex, than it would be a dash across the end of a road - which is legal according to the Q&A. So long as neither of these hexes is in LOS to the firer, than I think the same thing applies whether or not there is a road in those hexes. Or would you still disagree in this case?


This depends upon the position of the firer. The wall might interfere (making it not OG) or the hex might be out-of-LOS, so it's a moot point.

BTW, all Russian fire appears that it would pass through FFE LOS hindrances. Is this hindrance enough to cancel "Open Ground" to these oh-so-dashing German men? I think so.
Kind of confusing as they're using a house rule for OBA as it looks as if it's Blue for Harrassing Fire (C1.72), but given the location of the FFE counter T7 is not OG to the firer.
 

Russ Isaia

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That's my take as well. T7->U6 doesn't seem to cross a road IMO.
Sorry to bump this when the interested parties have moved on but I am interested in a bit more as I think Binchois has the better of the argument and don't see a resolution (an absurd expectation for an ASL rulebook discussion, but hey, that's me).

The position you and vM are taking treats T6 as on one side of a road which must include U7 for purposes of dashing to V6 while contending U7 is not on the other side of the very same road for purposes of dashing to V7. Even though U6 is the mirror image in all respects material to this issue to T6? How can this be? Or have I misconstrued the rationale for your position?
 

zgrose

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T7 to V6 is a Dash via U7 across the road running from U6-U7-V7.
T7 to U6 is a Dash via U7 across the road running from...?
I think it looks like moving along the road to Dash into U6 or V7.
If you can define a road as running from U7 to W8, are you crossing that road when you move into U6?

I believe that’s why T7 to U6 doesn’t look like a Dash (to me).
 
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