DAK and Italy

Mantis

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Ok, I've invaded Turkey, and am redoing a turn because I attacked a Brit battalion on Cyprus with a non-DAK unit. I now find I don't have any unit available whatsoever for amphibious operations. If you actually have a game where you plan on keeping the Italians out for awhile, and you decide to take the ME route through Turkey instead (like I decided to try) - what does that mean? You have no Med transport capability whatsoever? (I can see the argument for that case...)

At what point would said restriction be lifted? When that Canal is taken? (Which would unhinge the above argument).

And was this planned this way, or I am just the first one it's happened to? :laugh:
 

Veers

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Ok, I've invaded Turkey, and am redoing a turn because I attacked a Brit battalion on Cyprus with a non-DAK unit. I now find I don't have any unit available whatsoever for amphibious operations. If you actually have a game where you plan on keeping the Italians out for awhile, and you decide to take the ME route through Turkey instead (like I decided to try) - what does that mean? You have no Med transport capability whatsoever? (I can see the argument for that case...)

At what point would said restriction be lifted? When that Canal is taken? (Which would unhinge the above argument).

And was this planned this way, or I am just the first one it's happened to? :laugh:
Hehehe. :laugh:

Be interesting to hear Mark's toughts.

EDIT: Note, I recieved your email.
 
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Veers

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M said:
If you actually have a game where you plan on keeping the Italians out for awhile, and you decide to take the ME route through Turkey instead (like I decided to try) - what does that mean? You have no Med transport capability whatsoever
Well, without the Italians to ferry units about in the Med, you would have absolutely no German Navy in the Med, unless you chose to force a) The Channel, and b) either the Suez Canal or Gibraltar. This would likely end pooly for the Germans. :D On the other hand, you would have the Rumanian and Bulagrian Navies. Both locked in the Black Sea, until you take Constinople, which you have firm control over right now. However, the Rumanian and Bulgarian Fleets would likely be no match for the RN (unless of course it all got wiped out by a combination of your boldness and my stupidity, as has happened). Of course there is no way of knowing that the entire RN has been destroyed, and therefore, no way of declaring control of the eastern Med except for both forces to lay down their cards and compare what they have. :laugh: But then again, air forces would have to be considered in all that anyways. None of which can, game wise, be computed. So all that you have just read is useless!! :laugh:

Aside from the problems above. The question would then be, how many landing craft did the Romanians and Bulgarians have at this time? Enough to carry a German Corps, Armee, or none at all? <----That would be worth answering, as if it was none at all, we wouldn't have to worry about who controls the East Med. :D

M said:
At what point would said restriction be lifted? When that Canal is taken? (Which would unhinge the above argument).
Even if the Canal was taken, the Germans would still have to brave RN attack getting their navy to the Med. So, maybe as long as you have a German naval unit in the Med (representing some landign craft), you could attack islands amphibiously and supply a small force (a division, a corps?).

I don't know man. I din't design this damn messed up scenario, anyways!!! :laugh: (Thank God we have MArk for that) :laugh: :hurray:


EDIT:
M said:
(Notices both Veers and Mark on the EA forum - quite convenient!)
Yes, very convienient. Although, I am heading off to work in the next 10ish minutes, so my input coudl be limited...
 

Mark Stevens

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Never really thought it through either. I suppose that you could argue that Germany would have no way of projecting any significant naval power into the Mediterranean, however strong it was in mainland Europe. The Vichy French - have you taken France? - can move in the Mediterranean and North Africa, but otherwise, unless you've activated Spain or the pro-Axis Turks, you are horribly short of manpower there. The few German specialist units can be used - the Brandenburgers, marine regiment, 7th Fleiger and 22nd Airlanding - but that's your lot.

I wouldn't lift the restriction ever: even if Germany could fight its way overland to Egypt, how would it gain any naval capability in the Mediterranean? Obviously it could have seized some merchant shipping, but without the Italian navy to protect it such shipping would have been vunerable to even the lightest Allied naval forces.

Interesting question, but Mark 'the Oracle' has no real answer.
 

Mark Stevens

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Plus, if you can take Cyprus, Malta, Gibraltar, Alexandria and Crete, that will unlock additional DAK forces, which can then be transported from Germany to the coast and used anywhere in the Mediterranean.
 

Mantis

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Will they come even if Italy is still neutral? I just won't get the (initial) Panzer until they enter?
 

Mark Stevens

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Yes...you could argue that that's a little odd, too.

If I were to justify it, I suppose that the original DAK units were sent to North Africa to aid the Italians. As that wouldn't have been necessary if Italy remained neutral, then in this reality Germany only starts forming desert units, and more importantly scraping up the shipping, when it begins intervening in the Mediterranean theatre on its own account, e.g. by attacking through the Balkans, Greece and Turkey.

Crikey, I can waffle for England.

But yes, you'll only 'lose' the initial panzer division, the HQ and, of course, all four air units. Maybe add an additional air unit for each port/island captured?

Curse you, Mantis, for your exotic strategy! :curse:
 
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