Da Paul Challenge

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Paul M. Weir

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Grosstraktor (= great/heavy tractor), the Krupp version, I believe, serving as a "Gate Guardian" for a Panzer barracks pre-war (Pultos?). 2 each were built by by Rheinmetall, Krupp and Daimler to the same specification but slightly different designs and trialled at Kazan, USSR under the pre-Nazi Soviet-German cooperation treaty. Inspired by the Vickers Independent, T-28 and T-35 they were regarded as a development dead end, but useful as early design exercises. Never saw combat.
 

BigAl737

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View attachment 4984

It's just a PzKpfw Mk IV- but you got to admire the crew's pluck - I count at least 5 impacts. and the thing was still in action.

;)
I count 4...two on left left side of the picture, 1 above the CMG, and 1 below the gun. Is the fifth on the end of the gun barrel itself? It’s notched but that may be by design. Heck of a shot if it is. Almost a hole in one.

Any guesses to the calibers of hits judging by the impact crater sizes?

Great picture Jon.
 

witchbottles

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I count 4...two on left left side of the picture, 1 above the CMG, and 1 below the gun. Is the fifth on the end of the gun barrel itself? It’s notched but that may be by design. Heck of a shot if it is. Almost a hole in one.

Any guesses to the calibers of hits judging by the impact crater sizes?

Great picture Jon.
Given the AFV was photographed after capture at El Guettar - I'd hazard a guess you are looking at 37mm AP and 75mm HE direct fire impacts from the prevailing US armor on hand during El Guettar- the largest guns would have been the M10's, but their AP rounds would have done a nice little number to any frontal armor on a Mk IV.


Yeah, the gun barrel was nailed as well.
 

witchbottles

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The Joad family goes to war?
"Granny's got a Gun
Granny's got a Gun
The whole world's come undone
She's gonna have some fun
What made Granny snap?
Was she tired of Jethro's crap?
They say when Granny lost Rate of Fire, they found Drysdale broken in the woods......
Now Elly had a boyfriend but Granny made sure he gone for good....."


:D

"Well, this here's a story 'bout a man named Jed, Poor mountaineer, barely kept his family fed.
Then one day, he was shooting at some dudes, and up from the ground came acquisition 2.
(Minus, that is, Critical Hits and from afar......)"
 
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GeorgeBates

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Well, this here's a story 'bout a man named Jed, Poor mountaineer, barely kept his family fed.
Actually, it was more of a Grapes Of Wrath meme...
I’ll be all around in the dark – I’ll be everywhere. Wherever you can look – wherever there’s a fight, so hungry people can eat, I’ll be there. Wherever there’s a cop beatin’ up a guy, I’ll be there. I’ll be in the way guys yell when they’re mad. I’ll be in the way kids laugh when they’re hungry and they know supper’s ready, and when the people are eatin’ the stuff they raise and livin’ in the houses they build – I’ll be there, too.
 

witchbottles

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Actually, it was more of a Grapes Of Wrath meme...
I’ll be all around in the dark – I’ll be everywhere. Wherever you can look – wherever there’s a fight, so hungry people can eat, I’ll be there. Wherever there’s a cop beatin’ up a guy, I’ll be there. I’ll be in the way guys yell when they’re mad. I’ll be in the way kids laugh when they’re hungry and they know supper’s ready, and when the people are eatin’ the stuff they raise and livin’ in the houses they build – I’ll be there, too.
I improved on mine......

"This here's a story 'bout a Sarge named Jed,
Poor Squad Leader barely kept his soldiers fed,
Then one day, he was shootin' at some dudes,
and up from ground pops an acquisition 2.
(minus that is, boresighted, from afar).....

Well, the next thing you know, old Jed's a minus one,
the 1st Lieutenant says 'Jed, we're gonna have some fun',
You take your squad, and go up that there hill,
and take it all back from the man named 'Bill'.
(Cirillo that is, with a swimming pool in his backyard.)...."


:D:D
 

Steven Pleva

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Paul,
The new Centurion Mk 3 that appeared in Forgotten War has a CS7. What would justify a four person crew having such a high CS number? The King Tiger and Pershing had more armor, 5 man crew and they still only rate CS6.
Thanks,
Steve
 

Paul M. Weir

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Paul,
The new Centurion Mk 3 that appeared in Forgotten War has a CS7. What would justify a four person crew having such a high CS number? The King Tiger and Pershing had more armor, 5 man crew and they still only rate CS6.
Thanks,
Steve
OK. Not something I noticed.

The KT had a weakness in that it had ammo in the turret bustle and in the pannier sides immediately below the turret, the latter shared with the Panther and Tiger. Getting through the armour would be one thing but once you did, then "whoosh!". Don't know about the Pershing. One of the proclaimed advantages of the Centurion was it, like most British tanks, had no ammo above the turret ring. On the other hand the T-34/76 didn't have any either (but it did have fuel tanks in the crew area, admittedly diesel, but still ...).

Hatches/crew were similar, as usual the gunner (only) didn't have his own hatch.

The British, one of the first nations to adopt operational research, did extensive studies of causes of tank KOs and what were the reasons for post-KO fires, etc. So I would expect that in a KO situation a British tank would give the best chance of crew survival. Maybe a combination of little things adding up to a big thing? However, now that you pointed it out, it does see a bit odd. I doubt that it will change more than a very, very rare game involving Centurions (a CS DR of 7 allowing a crew to control a building, once every thousand games?). A change of a Gun TK by 1 would have far more effect, so it's not something I am going to loose any sleep over, but still ... odd.

In the end I honestly don't know.
 

Eagle4ty

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OK. Not something I noticed.

The KT had a weakness in that it had ammo in the turret bustle and in the pannier sides immediately below the turret, the latter shared with the Panther and Tiger. Getting through the armour would be one thing but once you did, then "whoosh!". Don't know about the Pershing. One of the proclaimed advantages of the Centurion was it, like most British tanks, had no ammo above the turret ring. On the other hand the T-34/76 didn't have any either (but it did have fuel tanks in the crew area, admittedly diesel, but still ...).

Hatches/crew were similar, as usual the gunner (only) didn't have his own hatch.

The British, one of the first nations to adopt operational research, did extensive studies of causes of tank KOs and what were the reasons for post-KO fires, etc. So I would expect that in a KO situation a British tank would give the best chance of crew survival. Maybe a combination of little things adding up to a big thing? However, now that you pointed it out, it does see a bit odd. I doubt that it will change more than a very, very rare game involving Centurions (a CS DR of 7 allowing a crew to control a building, once every thousand games?). A change of a Gun TK by 1 would have far more effect, so it's not something I am going to loose any sleep over, but still ... odd.

In the end I honestly don't know.
Not so much that there is fuel (T-34) but a lack thereof. I don't know if the fuel drained from the compartment tanks first, but the fumes, diesel or otherwise, are much more dangerous when hit than a full fuel tank-I know, seen it happen several times- return trips were always much more dangerous when fuel tanks were half full or less. As to the increased survivability of the crew in a Centurion, perhaps by the addition of a rubberized mat that the ready rack ammo was stowed on. Not sure if this existed by the time of the Korean War, but later tanks employed them on the turret floor or ready rack area to minimize an electro-static charge emanating from a penetration or electrical malfunction of the system that could potentially set off rounds stored with metal-on-metal, especially if stored upright in a ready rack configuration (pure speculation on my part at most).:rolleyes:
 
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