Kevin Kenneally
Elder Member
Paul,
The US Army ADA has adopted the Bradley fighting vehicle as a SPAA vehicle; 4 vehicles to a platoon and each vehicle has a Stinger dismpunt team as well.
Da Paul Challenge
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The US Army ADA has adopted the Bradley fighting vehicle as a SPAA vehicle; 4 vehicles to a platoon and each vehicle has a Stinger dismpunt team as well.
witchbottles
Forum Guru
1. is technically built by Lancia; but in 1915, this one designated the "4500 S(c)" on the 2 plates I have found of it. It is specifically distingushed as being a different manufacture than the IZ series.
the ansaldo is pretty cool looking, IMO.
Kevin Kenneally
Elder Member
chris_olden
Elder Member
Too bad we didn't get these in F.B....*hint hint*
:laugh:
:laugh:
Kevin Kenneally
Elder Member
Rockets and the counters for Rockets are "Verboten" from the "Official ASL Producer"........Too bad we didn't get these in F.B....*hint hint*
:laugh:
I really did like the Cross of Iron German Half-Track with the rocket launchers along each side of the vehicle.
chris_olden
Elder Member
Yeah, I dug those as well.
These little "bottle rockets" didn't have a lot of range.
They are well within the scope of ASL.
footsteps
Just visiting
Ah, yes, the MaeWestschrecken.Too bad we didn't get these in F.B....*hint hint*
:laugh:
witchbottles
Forum Guru
beautiful answer!!:laugh:
I rather think though they are classified as "Brüstenraketenwerfer"
aka the "t1ttierocket!":laugh::laugh:
The M6 Bradley Linebacker which replaced the TOW launcher with a 4-Stinger pack were converted back to M2 IFV configuration in 2006. The gun was just the existing M2's 25mm chain gun, which like all the IFV's (BMP-2, M2, CV-90) cannon can be quite useful against helicopters, but little use against anything faster.
Justicar kindly alerted me to the LAV-AD which had 2 4-Stinger packs and a GAU-12 25mm gatling type cannon. The GAU-12 was a much more potent AA weapon than the M6's 25mm. Also apparently no longer in service.
While both had good comms and the ability to be pointed to targets by the local air defense radar network and were equipped with white and IR TV systems, neither had their own radar systems, a failing that they shared with the much older Soviet BRDM SA-9 variant.
I was particularly interested in AA gun systems. While missiles have better ranges and TK percentages, they can be spoofed to varying degrees, gun systems are shorter ranged, less accurate but still can be aimed by various optical means and do have dual use. Missiles are more expensive and in more limited supply than 23, 25, 30 or 35mm ammunition. A mixture of guns, radar and IR missiles makes the opposing air forces task much more risky and complex. While the German Gepards have gone/are going out of service, the Poles and South Koreans have their own equivalents with 35 mm cannon. The Soviet Shilka has its Tunguska replacement (2 x 30mm guns & missiles) and the Chinese have their PGZ95 (4 x 25mm guns & missiles). All with on board radar.
Having an onboard radar system means that if your local air defense network gets taken down by ARMs or plain old artillery or iron bomb air strike, then each vehicle can still search as well as track on its own. Of course a radar system can IFF whilst an IR based system can't, so is not as safe to friendlies, which may inhibit or degrade your AD response.
Just like a mixture of tank guns, AT missiles and artillery make a land attacker's task more difficult by covering each individual system's limitations, AA guns and missiles mixes also cover each other's backs and act as force multipliers. Even if the number of shoot downs is low, minor damage can prevent prompt repeat air attacks and eat into spares.
Virtual attrition is also a problem if more attention has to be given to eliminating a multitude of small mobile AA platforms as well as causing mission aborts and misses. It can be a problem also if you run out of expensive ARMs when your enemy still has some Shilkas or Gepards left.
The main reason I mentioned the failure of the M247 is that I was a bit perplexed that US, with its great technological lead, never developed a good SP AAA system during the cold war while the Germans, French and Soviets did. I do not regard the M42, M163 or ZSU-57-2 as anything other than fairly marginal except against helicopters.
I very much agree.
The "Stuka zu Fuß" (Stuka on Foot (Fuß or Fuss = Foot) SdKfz 251/1 with Wurfrahmen 40) were quite short ranged, <50 ASL hexes. The 28cm rocket was HE and the 32cm had a liquid incendary filling. They were fired from their packing crates attached to the side by a frame with a primitive elevating mechanism. Horizontal aiming was done by the driver steering the vehicle using a simple vane/post sight. As you can imagine, not very accurate but with 50 kg of HE (8-6 times the filling of a 152mm shell or roughly equivalent to a 12" naval HE shell) or 45 kg incendary had a hell of a punch, so a near miss would still be effective.
They could also be fired singly direct from their packing crates which had 2 simple folding legs or like the Soviet M-30 in a simple 4 rocket frame. The Soviet M-30 (300 mm) had a range of 70 hexes.
Both the German 28/32 cm and Soviet 300 mm systems were very often if not mainly used in a direct fire role, so should be in ASL as counters.
Depends upon what you mean by 'remotely'. Because of the backblast and the crap that was kicked up, the crew always took cover (except obviously the vehicular versions) and fired them via an electric cable but in ASL terms the crew would be in the same hex (possibly an adjacent hex at a stretch), so in that respect, no.
dlazov
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CH Berlin modules have rules for all these special rockets, jon and I are about to indulge in them this coming holiday...we are on day two of the April CG of the big one in Berlin.
I am going to buy a bottle of single malt and bourbon to enjoy while we knock our selves silly in this beast...
I am going to buy a bottle of single malt and bourbon to enjoy while we knock our selves silly in this beast...
witchbottles
Forum Guru
not quite, but close.
the TL version is the on board german rocket OBA RG herin decsribed:
The 280-mm rocket also has been encountered with high-explosive filling only. It resembles the 320-mm incendiary rocket. These rockets both may be fired from their packing crates, the crates being individually supported in an inclined pit or trench, or placed on either the Schweres Wurfgerät 40 (a wooden rack), the Schweres Wurfgerät 41 (a steel rack), or the Schwerer Wurfrahmnn 40 (six plates on a half-track to hold packing crates). The 23/32-cm Nebelwerfer 41 launches 320-mm rockets, and can also launch 280-mm rockets upon the addition of liners to each of its six launching frames, which are mounted on a two-wheeled carriage.
these are being fired from the Schweres Wurfgerät 41, steel racks welded into a crude frame to hold 4-6 packing crates at about a 35-50 degree angle upward. Highly inaccurate, the references do show several example plate of these racks being reloaded both in the rear and under direct fire, by 2 man reloading teams. The TL rules do not give an ability to reload these, however. Tactically, they were placed much like the Panzerturms in a "ring of fire" around sector Z; so the launch rails are presumed to be very close to the front lines, and likely overrun as the Soviets advanced.
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/pics/german-rocket-ww2.jpg
in their firing rack:
http://www.uboataces.com/images/rocket_launcher.jpg
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/rocket/f2_german_rocket_wurfgerat_nebelwerfer.jpg
they come in both 280 and 300mm sizes for TL2.
in addition to the plethora of Die Panzerfauste and the panzershreks. One of the deadliest attacks the germans have is the adj PF at inf in the stone building / rubble 5 to hit, 6 if it was ffnam; from a 4-3-6 who draws a faust in Berlin on a 1-4; followed by the 16 flat attack on the IFT. killed a whole platoon of 4-5-8s with 2 conscripts, a hero and a 8-0 ldr last CG date this way. held the entire block all game.
KRL
jon h
chris_olden
Elder Member
The picture is actually of a Hungarian manufactured rocket launcher.
Hungarian paratroopers used them defending the Attila Line in October of '44.
Hungarian paratroopers used them defending the Attila Line in October of '44.
von Marwitz
Forum Guru
Only one unit in a stack can be normally hit this way - for an entire stack to be killed, you'd need to gack random selection big time...
"C13.31: ... As a one-shot weapon, a PF may not directly affect more than one unit when fired at an Infantry/Cavalry target (see 8.31) unless the Random Selection DR indicates several units are affected. ..."
von Marwitz
witchbottles
Forum Guru
yahtzee can be a wonderful thing, but not in ASL
i got 4 hits with 2 sqds and 1 smc in a single fire phase, at 3 targets. one of the 1MCs backblasts BHd and made the hero, the other cr'd the 8-0 wounding him.
I got a 1KIA, a 2MC ELR, a pass 2mc that triggered a 1 SAN who nails the russian 9-1 in the eyes, LLMCs the cr the brk /elrd guy and brk the passed guy. Last shot gets a K/2 with a 6,6 2MC on the remaining HS.pass my backblast mc.
Don Lazov was ready to scream by the end of the turn...
lady luck. for him at least, became a "backstabbin' ho". the only bad part, the SR's mean you have to give back terrain on the russ side of the LW canal in the RePh. I took 49 CVPs total on 27Apr Noon, for a loss of 11 CVPs, and no loss of starting perimeter at all. ( 4 of my losses however were 2 howitzers, and 3 more was a 10-2 leading a key mg nest who took a 1 SAN. )
dlazov
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Lady luck is a skanky whore, she gives and takes when she wants it, that b1tch! She is also a two timer, a slut, a gang raped cold hearted evil b1tch, that needs her @$$ whipped good, dirty slutty whore b1tch!
A cable of some sort to allow the crew to take cover was exctly what I had in mind, though I was half expecting them to be a little longer =)
von Marwitz
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Good story. Nobody said, war is fair. :laugh:i got 4 hits with 2 sqds and 1 smc in a single fire phase, at 3 targets. one of the 1MCs backblasts BHd and made the hero, the other cr'd the 8-0 wounding him.
I got a 1KIA, a 2MC ELR, a pass 2mc that triggered a 1 SAN who nails the russian 9-1 in the eyes, LLMCs the cr the brk /elrd guy and brk the passed guy. Last shot gets a K/2 with a 6,6 2MC on the remaining HS.pass my backblast mc.
Don Lazov was ready to scream by the end of the turn...
von Marwitz
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