Da Paul Challenge

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jrv

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Ah, well... The blind squirrel (i.e., me) found no nut this time. Still looks interwar British to me.
That is not inconsistent. It is just not a Vickers Mk I chassis as I understand, and I won't claim Paul's expertise in such matters.

JR
 

djohannsen

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That is not inconsistent. It is just not a Vickers Mk I chassis as I understand, and I won't claim Paul's expertise in such matters.

JR
So my guess wasn't laughably and absurdly wrong . At this point in my life, I'll happily settle for that.
 

Paul M. Weir

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This site claims it was not the Vickers Mk. II, or it was only partially. I can't claim to know which answer is right.

JR
That could be argued a bit. The Mk I & II used many elements of the chassis in common. Part of the problem is that the original Mk I had a habit of shedding roadwheels and needed redesigned and stronger bogies and axels which were later fitted. So updated Mk I were closer to Mk II in suspension, though the upper hulls were different.

Then there is the question of what degree of commonality of hull size and shape is required to call something "based upon". Eg the M7 Priest used a fairly standard M4 hull, while the Wespe and SU-76M used stretched Pz II F and T-70M chassis with the engines moved from rear to front (the SU-76M had an extra roadwheel as well).

So you are right that there is no clear yes/no answer.
 

Paul M. Weir

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The green cross is a dead giveaway: Hungarian. A Toldi I or Toldi II with the 20mm.
 

witchbottles

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Unlike most command tanks, the Toldi II 38M had teeth albeit small ones - with a 20mm machine cannon MA in the turret. (The UHF antenna is actually a HF antenna loop over the port rear quadrant of the AFV.)

In ASL, I'd make it a a 20L, ROF 2, ST, OP tank capable, a 2 FP BMG, and mark the counter reverse with a "*ST" designation - note in Chptr H to prevent the turret from rotating from 6:00 to 8:00 hexspines. ( the antenna assembly location).
 

Paul M. Weir

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yes, but why just a 20mm?
It's too thin for the shortened 40mm that the Toldi IIa had.

Don't forget that the Toldi was a locally manufactured version of the Swedish L-60 which also started with a full auto 20mm Madsen and 2 x 8mm Brownings. The turret was reworked to suit Hungarian weapons.
The Hungarians used the Solthurn S-18/100 (as the 36M) ATR in the early Toldi (I and II), replaced later with a 40mm in the Toldi IIa and back fitted to some early Toldi. Solothurn first produced the semi-automatic 20mm S-18/100, a bigger cartridge in the S-18/1000 and finally made the S-18/1000 in an automatic version as the S-18/1100.

The original Toldi I & II only had a semi-automatic weapon, see AxMVN 7. The hoop aerial was attached to the right hand side of turret at both ends, so should not restrict turret arc. Given that I have only seen the hoop on early Toldi and that when changing production to the Toldi II the radio was upgraded (see site mentioned below) , I suspect that like with the German SdKfz 232 (8 rad) AC (which started with a huge 'bed frame' antenna, later a simpler and smaller 'pole and star' pattern) a simpler aerial was sufficient.

I'm inclined to think the photo is of a plain Toldi I with older radio and aerial, rather than a command version.

Some history here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/06/hungarian-armor-part-3-toldi/ and http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/16/hungarian-armor-part-4-toldi-ii-toldi-iia-toldi-iii/
 

Paul M. Weir

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Sometimes you can take the idea of bringing a "spare" along too far..........
Unfortunately I can't see the M4 rear hull plate, so it could be a M4, M4A2 or M4A3. The angle of the planking at the front and how far it projects suggests a late 47° hull, so that would mean a late 75mm M4A2 or M4A3. The soldier looks more Marine than Army, so more likely a late M4A2. The ride-on is a Type 94 TK (Tokushu Keninsha = Special Tractor) tankette. Looks like it's ready for shipping home to help the parents on the farm. The look on his face says "These are mine, find your own!".

EDIT: The one he is resting his hand on, though little can be seen of it, looks more like a Type 97 Te-Ke tankette, the Type 94's replacement, than anything else.
 
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djohannsen

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Unfortunately I can't see the M4 rear hull plate, so it could be a M4, M4A2 or M4A3. The angle of the planking at the front and how far it projects suggests a late 47° hull, so that would mean a late 75mm M4A2 or M4A3. The soldier looks more Marine than Army, so more likely a late M4A2. The ride-on is a Type 94 TK (Tokushu Keninsha = Special Tractor) tankette. Looks like it's ready for shipping home to help the parents on the farm. The look on his face says "These are mine, find your own!".
Paul:

This is a from a well known series of photos. I believe from Namur, so definitely the USMC (4th Tanks) and (almost surely) an M4A2.
 
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