Da Paul Challenge

Paul M. Weir

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If you mean the thick bar with a "claw", almost level with and parallel to the hull floor, then it is a tow bar, as Gordon has correctly surmised.

If you mean the thing that arises from the track and is truncated by the picture top, then something niggles me into believing it is a very narrow slice of a background utility pole, note what appears to be a wire going from the tow bar to the upper right, possibly intersecting with the utility pole above the picture top. It's just something about it that reminds me of frame type utility poles (telephone, telegraph, electricity?) seen in some South of France wartime shots.
 

Gordon

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The crew were unharmed, and were photographed here, shortly before the arrival of the recovery vehicle.
Lucky for them. Rolling over a tank can be in the words of Nicholas Moran (aka The Chieftain) a "significant emotional event." and a significant physical event as well.
 

jrv

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If you mean the thick bar with a "claw", almost level with and parallel to the hull floor, then it is a tow bar, as Gordon has correctly surmised.

If you mean the thing that arises from the track and is truncated by the picture top, then something niggles me into believing it is a very narrow slice of a background utility pole, note what appears to be a wire going from the tow bar to the upper right, possibly intersecting with the utility pole above the picture top. It's just something about it that reminds me of frame type utility poles (telephone, telegraph, electricity?) seen in some South of France wartime shots.
I meant the tow bar. The other thing is in the background.

JR
 

Gordon

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perhaps among the reasons Germans ge penalized for ESB and for German made Trucks in the DTO terrain types?
I think the DTO penalty (and British lack of penalty) was primarily due to not having doubled up wheels on the rear axles which tended to capture rocks between them which then punctured the tires. NRBH, but I'm not sure if there are any rules specifically for insufficient air filtration and cooling issues that were experienced by all of the combatants to varying degrees.
 

witchbottles

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I think the DTO penalty (and British lack of penalty) was primarily due to not having doubled up wheels on the rear axles which tended to capture rocks between them which then punctured the tires. NRBH, but I'm not sure if there are any rules specifically for insufficient air filtration and cooling issues that were experienced by all of the combatants to varying degrees.
"F.4 AXIS VEHICLES: All Axis vehicles [EXC: motorcycles] in North African (as defined in 11.2) scenarios set prior to October 1941 are assumed to have their MP allotments printed in red (D2.5-.51).2 Hence even wheeled Axis vehicles are subject to Mechanical Reliability DR (D2.51) during that time period. "
 

witchbottles

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I think the DTO penalty (and British lack of penalty) was primarily due to not having doubled up wheels on the rear axles which tended to capture rocks between them which then punctured the tires. NRBH, but I'm not sure if there are any rules specifically for insufficient air filtration and cooling issues that were experienced by all of the combatants to varying degrees.
What you are referring to is in F3.31 table:


DRMCause
+1If the vehicle expends MP as a Truck, weighs ≥ 4 tons, and is not British-built*;6
 

Paul M. Weir

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As what Gordon said, but in addition the Germans had less experience of DTO conditions than the British and Italians. While the British had problems with dust filtration and cooling the Germans had worse, at least in the first year. One early issue the British had was a habit of when transferring from rail to ship they drove their tanks without coolant!!!! In addition early convoys did not protect their vehicles sufficiently well against the corrosive salt from seawater. It meant that a large time consuming amount of work had to be done at the arrival port before AFV were fit to move, never mind fight. The Germans were better at "packing" their stuff for sea travel.
 

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"F.4 AXIS VEHICLES: All Axis vehicles [EXC: motorcycles] in North African (as defined in 11.2) scenarios set prior to October 1941 are assumed to have their MP allotments printed in red (D2.5-.51).2 Hence even wheeled Axis vehicles are subject to Mechanical Reliability DR (D2.51) during that time period. "
Cool, so that covers it all then. F.4 for the inadequate air filters/cooling and the F3.31 table for the tires. I really need to keep a second copy of the RB at my desk in the office for these sorts of important discussions (or have Paul on speed dial) ...
 

witchbottles

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Cool, so that covers it all then. F.4 for the inadequate air filters/cooling and the F3.31 table for the tires. I really need to keep a second copy of the RB at my desk in the office for these sorts of important discussions (or have Paul on speed dial) ...
yep I was figuring perhaps F.4 and D 2.5 table covered this at least in part:

ESB DRM TableManufacturer NationalityDRM
US. (a), Czech (t).......................................0
Russian (r)..............................................+1
British (b), German (g)..................................+2
French (f), Italian (i), Others..........................+3
 

witchbottles

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put together, the ESB penalty for the Germans as well as the F.4 Red MP and MR reqs all added up with the Hammada issues of F3.31 meant that Axis vehicles in general in the desert were far below those of other nationalities overall, and that anywhere else, they still suffered from many reqs ( ESB + DRM) that meant field conditions would in fact result in breakdowns, perhaps at the most inconvenient of times, ie when you're pushing that engine just a bit harder to stay out in front of the advancing Soviet horde in mid 1944.
 

Paul M. Weir

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There is the question of whether wheeled vehicular sabotage would even be a factor in an ASL situation. AFVs might still be pressed into service despite pending or actual mechanical problems, simply because of the urgency of a situation. Softskin transport unless a gun tractor or ammo vehicle would be less likely to be pressed to break down point, especially near the front where it could be captured or destroyed.

Oh, I forgot about another problem with the British shipping AFV to the DTO. Add to seized engines and saltwater corrosion, many AFV arrived missing their tool kits, quite useful things to repair said engines, etc. The proletariat liberated the means of production (thieving dockers). I doubt that the Germans had quite the same problems, at least after the first example had been made.
 

Paul M. Weir

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