Da Paul Challenge

Paul M. Weir

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they say the 90mm HEAT round is capable of defeating a T-72 MBT armor, and easily capable of defeating T-62 and T-64 armor. What's your thoughts on that, Paul?
Oops, I forgot the stated penetration figures:
0° - 320mm
60° - 120mm

Pretty good, I think. That should be able to take on an IS-3 from the front with a half decent chance. In ASL terms that would be a TK of 37 and with a MV of 750 m/s would rate as a 90L. May only fire HE and HEAT. The main problem is it only carried 20 rounds so it would be a B(10). A lesser problem is that it had no power traverse. I'm not too sure whether the commander doubled as gunner or loader, but given that the CMG and commander's cupola were both on the left of the turret, I suspect the commander doubled as loader. That would make the turret a ST rather than a RST. Given the manual traverse, 2 man turret and WW2 era fire controls, I would be inclined to a RoF of [0], IE none, but no "NO IF" penalty.

So 90L [0] B(10), no AP, unlimited HEAT & HE, TK 37, ST, 4 CMG.

At least that is my best guess.
 
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witchbottles

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Oops, I forgot the stated penetration figures:
0° - 320mm
60° - 120mm

Pretty good, I think. That should be able to take on an IS-3 from the front with a half decent chance. In ASL terms that would be a TK of 37 and with a MV of 750 m/s would rate as a 90L. May only fire HE and HEAT. The main problem is it only carried 20 rounds so it would be a B(10). A lesser problem is that it had no power traverse. I'm not too sure whether the commander doubled as gunner or loader, but given that the CMG and commander's cupola were both on the left of the turret, I suspect the commander doubled as loader. That would make the turret a ST rather than a RST. Given the manual traverse, 2 man turret and WW2 era fire controls, I would be inclined to a RoF of [0], IE none, but no "NO IF" penalty.

So 90L [0] B(10), no AP, unlimited HEAT & HE, TK 37, ST, 4 CMG.

At least that is my best guess.
yeah, I noticed they only carried 20 rounds of ammunition in total as well. However, it seems they were pretty regularly deployed in conjunction with Panhard AML-60s models - which carried a breech loaded direct fire 60mm mortar carrying HE rounds, so my reference book kind of makes their overall deployment something akin to a 1-2 punch, the AML 60s for anti-infantry and on call fire support, and the AML 90 for dealing with any AFV threats.

(that being how they were deployed by SADF and by the Moroccans, according to the source book). It only referenced the AML 90 as being also used by UN Irish forces in a few places, so I went looking for a photo or two of the Irish UN version.

Do you suppose it is feasible that there may have been a case of "dueling Panhards" in the Biafran war? (1st Nigerian Civil War) - Biafra is shown as perhaps having as many as a dozen operating in a "mobile group" - apparently captured from Nigeria. There is little mention of it in my source materials available, but it apparently was likely that mobile group was working in the same general areas of fighting as the Nigerian Armored Regiment from 1967-1969.

It would be rather interesting to discover a historically "forgotten" armored battle of the Cold (hot) War in Equatorial Africa.
 

witchbottles

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8946

If the turret looks familiar to all you ASL players, well, it should - quite a common one in scenarios...

but its not mounted on any tank chassis --- ;)
 

KhandidGamera

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View attachment 8946

If the turret looks familiar to all you ASL players, well, it should - quite a common one in scenarios...

but its not mounted on any tank chassis --- ;)
I'd say Russian BKA 1125 Armored Boat, front end to the left, based on the pilot house/bridge to the right of the T34 early 76L turret and the cracker box turret between the T34 turret and the pilot house/bridge.

Andy can appreciate and tell us I'm sure.
 

witchbottles

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I'd say Russian BKA 1125 Armored Boat, front end to the left, based on the pilot house/bridge to the right of the T34 early 76L turret and the cracker box turret between the T34 turret and the pilot house/bridge.

Andy can appreciate and tell us I'm sure.

you're thinking too modern - it's not nearly so new as the 1125/1126 series of river monitors.


Nope it’s on an armoured riverboat
It is- but whose, and where? and of course the most important - when?

:D

I'm sure Paul will chime in here soon on this one. ;)
 

witchbottles

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I'd say Russian BKA 1125 Armored Boat, front end to the left, based on the pilot house/bridge to the right of the T34 early 76L turret and the cracker box turret between the T34 turret and the pilot house/bridge.

Andy can appreciate and tell us I'm sure.
by the by, the 1125/1126 series of river monitors all house twin T34/85 turrets. The follow on 1131 series used IS-3 turrets. That's no T-34/85 or an IS.
 

Paul M. Weir

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Looking at the layout of the wheelhouse the photo is of the front half of a BKA 1124 or BKA 1125. The BKA 1124 had 2 gun turrets, one front and rear and the BKA 1125 only 1 front gun turret. So I can't tell which it is from the photo.
by the by, the 1125/1126 series of river monitors all house twin T34/85 turrets. The follow on 1131 series used IS-3 turrets. That's no T-34/85 or an IS.
The early 1124/1125 used T-28 turrets, later constructed with T-34/76 turrets and finally with T-34/85 turrets. It appears that what they got was the current production standard.

Whatever is the boat base, the turret is a late '41 to early '42 production T-34 cast turret with the F-34 (IE 76L) 76.2mm gun and apparently no cmg. The cylindrical remnants behind the gun barrel are likely a twin 12.7mm or 7.62mm AA turret. One of those was mounted over the rear of the wheel house on both 1124/1125. An additional one was sometimes mounted in front of the gun turrets on 1124s or on the hull rear on 1125s. Like the gun turrets the AA turrets and placements varied. Some had 37mm AA guns just behind the wheel house and some 1124 had 16 x 82mm rocket launcher rails on the hull rear instead of the rear gun turret.

As for counters, LFT had them in Operation Chariot. 2 each BKA 1124, 1124 Rocket and 1125. That's the real value of Op Ch to me, the range of small gun boats from all nationalities that can be used outside an Op Ch situation.
 

Paul M. Weir

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I can't really remember, but I think the T-34/85 ring was very slightly larger. Clearly not enough to require any changes to the T-34 hull width. That would have been even less of a problem with a much wider BK hull.
 

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The Armored River boat is hull # BK-31 , an 1124 class Armored River Boat, used and subsequently sunk, in the Volga River during the Stalingrad campaign. She was raised after being found by a survey team looking for the best places to improve the shipping channels around Volgograd.

The sheer number of pristine artifacts found onboard were cataloged and entered into an exhibit in Volgograd at the museum dedicated to the city's defenders.
 
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