D7.2 - Reaction fire effect

[macrobo]

Hi All

Brain Freeze - D7.2 last line suggests Reaction fire occurs after OVR result
"Reaction Fire vs an OVRing vehicle is resolved immediately after the resolution of that OVR."

So my little Bren Carrier rolls snake eyes and vaporises a enemy squad in an gully hex and he rolls a stun in CC reaction fire - both results stand yes? or does stun mean the OVR is negated?

Cheers and thanks for the caffeine injection !

Rob

 

[Binchois]

No CC Reaction Fire from just-vaporized Infantry.? The two are not simultaneous... CC Reaction Fire only occurs after the Overrun is resolved (and only by the survivors). See OVR flowchart for more detail.

Think of the OVR as the AFV's opportunity to gain initiative in CC. If everyone survived this MPh - and if the Bren remained in the Gully hex, then the Infantry would get the first DR in sequential CC versus an AFV during the CCPh.

 

[General Mayhem]

However the fire against the Bren Carrier was not CC reaction fire it was defensive First Fire, which is carried out before the Overrun, I think, I believe this would halve the firepower of the overrun, but not sure when the BU effect takes place with regard to the MG firepower that can be used by an OT vehicle, is it before or after the Overrun. The infantry got vaporised any way.

 

[Eagle4ty]

However the fire against the Bren Carrier was not CC reaction fire it was defensive First Fire, which is carried out before the Overrun, I think, I believe this would halve the firepower of the overrun, but not sure when the BU effect takes place with regard to the MG firepower that can be used by an OT vehicle, is it before or after the Overrun. The infantry got vaporised any way.

If the carrier suffers a combat effect (Stun/STUN or Shock) it NEVER buttons up, the crew always remains CE regardless of when the effects happen (D6.82). Now if this occurs prior to the announcement of the Overrun, obviously the Overrun could not be accomplished as the vehicle would immediately stop. However if the D1F occurs after the announcement of the Overrun but prior to the conduct of the Overrun (D7.1, EXC) and had a deleterious effect upon the crew, the Overrun would be conducted without the use of any armament possessed by the carrier (EX: MA, AAMG, BMG), because the crew could not man any of these weapons because of its status, and the FP granted to the AFV for the Overrun would be halved (D7.11) as the AFV would be considered as having become immobile. If you have access Journal 8, I highly recommend a perusal of the "Crosstown Traffic" (about Overruns) by Carl Nogueira; Among one of the best articles ever officially produced for ASL (I re-read it at least once a year and will never get as good of an understanding at Overruns as Carl does - excellently presented).

 

[General Mayhem]

Yes it was D1F after the announcement of the Overrun but prior to its conduct.

Which rule is it that says the overrun would be conducted without the use of its weapons? I know there is a rule that states an OT vehicle that BUs cannot fire any weapon other than a bow mounted weapon, but I can't find a rule that would say that these effects of BU would apply to a carrier nor a rule that states that BU effects take place prior to the execution of the OVR?

I will take your advice and take a refresher course and reread the article in Journal 8.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Yes it was D1F after the announcement of the Overrun but prior to its conduct.

If it was a DFF attack vs the Carrier as it expended MP to enter the squad's Location + MP for an OVR, and the Carrier was stunned, the OVR FP would be halved.

D7.11:
"...The total FP of an OVR is halved if the vehicle becomes Immobile or destroyed before it can resolve its OVR (in addition to any halving vs a concealed target; A12.13), ..."

 

[General Mayhem]

If it was a DFF attack vs the Carrier as it expended MP to enter the squad's Location + MP for an OVR, and the Carrier was stunned, the OVR FP would be halved.

D7.11:
"...The total FP of an OVR is halved if the vehicle becomes Immobile or destroyed before it can resolve its OVR (in addition to any halving vs a concealed target; A12.13), ..."

Got that bit, but leaving aside the fact that it was a carrier - if the result of such an attack was to cause the vehicle to BU does the BU occur before computing the Overrun firepower or after - some weapons cannot be fired whilst certain vehicles are BU? That's basically the bit I cannot work out from the rules.

 

[Vinnie]

Pretty sure it goes like this:
Overrun declared on entry and the FP calculatedcat that time.
DFFire attacks go in and are resolved.
Overrun FP is affected by the result by being halved if immobilized or destroyed. Givrn that you get a halved attavk even if you are turned into a burning wreck, im pretty sure you get to use all weapons you could use prior to the DFFire attack.
Following the conclusion of the OVR, reaction fire attavks take place.

 

[Vinnie]

This is the big advantage of being concealed. You have to enter the hex first then declare an OVR. If you get bogged or destroyed, no OVR for you!

 

[Eagle4ty]

Pretty sure it goes like this:
Overrun declared on entry and the FP calculated at that time.
DFFire attacks go in and are resolved.
Overrun FP is affected by the result by being halved if immobilized or destroyed. Givrn that you get a halved attavk even if you are turned into a burning wreck, im pretty sure you get to use all weapons you could use prior to the DFFire attack.
Following the conclusion of the OVR, reaction fire attavks take place.

Being that the crew of a carrier would be Stunned/STUNNED or Shocked (D5.34-.341 & D5.8) I "think" they would unable to man their inherent weapons (e.g. MA, BMG, AAMG, IFP) for the OVR & would be treated as no usable MGs and without a functioning MA. I am less sure of this interpretation but since D1F occurs prior to the actual OVR I would assume so.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The FP is just halved.

 

[Vinnie]

Being that the crew of a carrier would be Stunned/STUNNED or Shocked (D5.34-.341 & D5.8) I "think" they would unable to man their inherent weapons (e.g. MA, BMG, AAMG, IFP) for the OVR & would be treated as no usable MGs and without a functioning MA. I am less sure of this interpretation but since D1F occurs prior to the actual OVR I would assume so.

The no useable MG would apply to a CC reaction fire attack but this takes place after the overrun.
They do get to use the MG firepower for the overrun if they declared it as they entered the hex.

 

[Eagle4ty]

The no useable MG would apply to a CC reaction fire attack but this takes place after the overrun.
They do get to use the MG firepower for the overrun if they declared it as they entered the hex.

Certainly willing to buy off on this interpretation as I believe the OVR & D1F vs it are simultaneous actions conducted sequentially for the purpose of game mechanics but wasn't quite sure if this take was universal.