D3.7, D5.34 and D5.341 Question

[Commissar Piotr]

Hi Guys

Was looking at the above-mentioned rules the other day.
If a vehicle with no Transport capacity and only a MA do Disable it's MA, would these rule then make the AFV marked with a STUN counter that would then be flipped to the Recall+1 side at the end of the Turn ?

The rule seems to clearly imply that but I have never seen anyone play it like that so it got me confused. If that is not the way it should be interpreted, what am I missing ?

 

[Bryan Holtby]

Almost all vehicles can transport, the 3.7 exception reference is to Passengers/Towing capacity, not Riders.

D3.7 ......A dr of 6 disables the weapon permanently and causes the malfunction counter to be flipped over to the Disabled side. A dr of 2-5 has no effect. Any vehicle whose MA and all Secondary Armament (if any, as per Vehicle Listing) are all disabled is immediately Recalled (5.341) unless that vehicle has Passenger/Towing capacity.



5.34 STUN: An AFV CE Inherent crew checks morale as per 5.1. If a CE AFV crew that qualifies for its normal CE DRM fails a MC, or if any CE crew of a fully armored AFV is attacked by a "2" Sniper dr (A14.3), or if a MG Final TK DR vs any (even a BU) AFV equals the Final TK#, or if Falling Rubble lands on a CE CT AFV (B24.121), that Inherent crew is Stunned...

Thus a Stun counter is placed only if the above happens and not if the vehicle malf's its MA.

5.341 RECALL: Recall occurs whenever an AFV CE Inherent crew that qualifies for its normal CE DRM suffers a K/KIA or Casualty MC result, or when any 1MT AFV (1.322) suffers a Stun Result [EXC: SMC crew; 5.343], or when the CE crew of a fully armored AFV is attacked by a "1" Sniper dr (A14.3). Recall is treated the same as a Stun except that at the end of that Player Turn the STUN counter is flipped over to its "Recall: +1" side.

5.342 An AFV crew that suffers a second Stun result (e.g., while already under the effects of a "+1" counter) suffers Recall instead. See also Disabled MA Recall; 3.7.



The results of both 3.7 and 5.3 are the same, your tank/AC/HT goes home.

 

[Commissar Piotr]

Hi Bryan

I do not question wether my Tank goes home or not, it certainly do.
What I do wonder is that D5.341 states that Recall is treated the same as Stun but the STUN counter is flipped at the end of the Player Turn to the Recall side.

This implies that when a MA is disabled on such a vehicle you should have to place a STUN counter on that vehicle and flip it over at the end of the player turn.

This is the basis for the question, we all know the vehicle will go home, the question is when and what it may or may not do until that time.
If the vehicle would be STUN and for example the failed repair was in a friendly player turn the vehicle could not use any MG armament in that Player Turn but would stay throughout the whole of the enemey player turn and be free to use it's MGs with a +1 DRM of course. If repaired in a enemy player turn and it is STUN then it could not fire any other weapons and then immediately goes home in the next friendly player turn. This means some advantages an some disadvantages as is common to ASL but if it do not become STUN but directly Recall (which I can find no rule that says so) one could still use the MGs in that same player turn and if the shot was in PFPh with a lowered B# and rolled boxcars this would be the same effect as if a STUN had been placed in RPh.
Seems to me it would be more consistent if a STUN is placed, but who am I to judge.

 

[paul]

At first I thought it was a straight forward answer, but examining the rules
clouds the issue a bit.

It would seem from the rules that the vehicle is immediately placed
under a STUN counter (big stun). . . . BTW I am pretty sure this isn't
correct.

I know I have never played it this way, instead treating it more like
the vehicle is under a recall (+1) counter immediately.

Note that Sam's Perry Sez page indicates that the +1 of the recall counter doesn't apply to vehicle recalled due to a disabled MA.

So, I believe the way it should work is when the vehicle is "immediately
recalled" (due to criteria in D3.7) is subject to the requirements to
exit the board listed under D5.341. The vehicle isn't suffering
a STUN (big stun), but instead in a sense has earned the recall
side of the STUN counter without the +1 . . . .

-Paul