D2.32 LOS to a vehicle in bypass

zgrose

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Ole Boe said:
I assume you mean from Y6 to Z7 in the D9.1 example - which would be similar to LOS from R6 to Q5 in the illustration at the start of this thread.

First, note that the hexsides include its vertices for wall/hedge purposes (D9.1). So from Y6 to Z7 (or R6 to Q5), the LOS goes through the (vertex of a) hexside to a center dot. Note the emphasis on "through".

For the vehicle with CAFP in Q5/Q6/R5, LOS from O5 or Q5 (or any other hex) doesn't go through the vertex, it goes to it. That's the cruical difference.

D9.3 requires LOS to go through a wall hexside or wall hexspine - not merely to it. No LOS to the vertex goes through the wall hexside, but LOS from P5 goes through the wall hexspine, thus its only from P5 that TEM/HD status apply.
Ok, I guess I can live with the distinction between to and through a vertex for hull down. I wonder if there are any other odd unintended consequences for that.
 

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Ole Boe said:
I assume you mean from Y6 to Z7 in the D9.1 example - which would be similar to LOS from R6 to Q5 in the illustration at the start of this thread.

First, note that the hexsides include its vertices for wall/hedge purposes (D9.1). So from Y6 to Z7 (or R6 to Q5), the LOS goes through the (vertex of a) hexside to a center dot. Note the emphasis on "through".

For the vehicle with CAFP in Q5/Q6/R5, LOS from O5 or Q5 (or any other hex) doesn't go through the vertex, it goes to it. That's the cruical difference.

D9.3 requires LOS to go through a wall hexside or wall hexspine - not merely to it. No LOS to the vertex goes through the wall hexside, but LOS from P5 goes through the wall hexspine, thus its only from P5 that TEM/HD status apply.
Could you show us in the rules where this distinction is actually made? If an Infantry unit was crossing that vertex it would receive the wall TEM (see example A4.34 LOF from C7 to D4-C5-D5 receives the wall TEM).
 

Ole Boe

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WaterRabbit said:
Could you show us in the rules where this distinction is actually made?
I think I already did, but I can do again:
D9.3 says: "Fire traced through a wall/hedge hexside or hexspine may be subject to a TEM for that wall/hedge if the target is in the Location formed by that hexside/hexspine."

As written above, "to" is not the same as "through".

If an Infantry unit was crossing that vertex it would receive the wall TEM (see example A4.34 LOF from C7 to D4-C5-D5 receives the wall TEM).
Well, that is not a similar example. The A4.34 example you refer to, would be similar to LOS from O5 to the CAFP, if there was a wall along the Q6/R5 hexside, or LOS from Q6 if there was a wall along the Q5/R5 hexside. I.e. one of the two hexsides of the unit's own hex contains the wall.

In our example, this is not true - it is a hexspine that contains the wall.
A similar situation from the A4.34 example would be if C5 was bypassable. Would the LOF from C7 to D4/C5/D5 still receive wall TEM?

To be honest, I think the A4.34 example says something else that D9.3 does. D9.3 is (pretty) clear, while A4.45 is clear with those specific examples it lists, but is of little help in general. To go back to our original example:



If I got it correct, You think that LOS to the Q5/Q6/R5 CAFP will receive wall TEM from O5 and even Q5. I guess you think that "through" in D9.3 can be understood as "to/through". That's fair, given the A4.34 examples.

However, that's very problematic, as that would give wall TEM to the CAFP from every hex, including R4, R5, R6 and Q6. Now that's bogus.
 
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Matt Romey

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I have a different "LOS" question.

Using this diagram, and assuming there was no wall, would a Gun in hex O6 (CA=O5/P5) be able to fire at the vehicle in Q5/Q6/R5? In other words, is the vehicle within the Gun's defined CA?
 

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Matt Romey said:
IUsing this diagram, and assuming there was no wall, would a Gun in hex O6 (CA=O5/P5) be able to fire at the vehicle in Q5/Q6/R5? In other words, is the vehicle within the Gun's defined CA?
No it isn't, since the vehicle is in R5 which is outside the Gun's CA:

C.5B FIRE WITHIN CA: A firer that must fire within a given CA must have the hex containing the target completely within its CA - merely having the vertex (or hexside) aiming point forming a part of the boundary of its CA is insufficient.
So if there was a building in Q5, and another vehicle was bypassing it along the Q5/R5 hexside with the same CAFP as above, then LOS would be drawn to the same vertex for the two vehicles, but only the latter would be inside the Gun's CA.
 

da priest

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Matt Romey said:
I have a different "LOS" question.

Using this diagram, and assuming there was no wall, would a Gun in hex O6 (CA=O5/P5) be able to fire at the vehicle in Q5/Q6/R5? In other words, is the vehicle within the Gun's defined CA?
Hmmm, can't see the diagram? :confused:
 

Matt Romey

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da priest said:
Hmmm, can't see the diagram? :confused:
Sorry, by "this" diagram, I meant the one directly above my post.

Thanks for the response Ole, I overlooked that rule.
 
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