CtR: Questions on Gun batteries and powder magazines

Jon

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Hi
Going to play a scenario from CtR and my opponent and I have some questions on Gun batteries and Powder Magazines.

1) What is the MF cost for Infantry to enter the Powder Magazine building, eg for an Infantry unit to move from V26 into the Powder Magazine building of V27. Is it 4MF (2MF to move INTO the Gun Battery [CtR 2.4] and then 2 MF to enter a building)? If it is 4 MF, is this spent as a single expenditure of 4MF or as two seperate expenditures of 2MF?

2) Is the Stone building of a Powder Magazine considered a seperate Location to units in that hex but not in the building?


3) CtR 3.2: How many squad equivalents can be in hex V27? Is it 1 SE in the Powder Magazine Cellar, 1SE in the Fortified Stone building part and 2SE IN the Gun Battery partof hex V27?

Or is the Powder Magazine hex of Gun Battery V27-W27 limited to having 2 Squad Equivalents (1SE in the Cellar and 1 SE in the Fortified Stone building)?

4) A unit is in the Fortified Bulding of a Powder magazine. what LOS does it have, given thatthat it shouldn't be able to gain Crest Status from in the building? LOS only to adjacent units or to units that have LOS INTO the Depression hex?

5) A unit is adjacent to or has LOS INTO the Depression hex of a Gun battery. What TEM does a unit in tyhe gun
 

rreinesch

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Hi
Going to play a scenario from CtR and my opponent and I have some questions on Gun batteries and Powder Magazines.

1) What is the MF cost for Infantry to enter the Powder Magazine building, eg for an Infantry unit to move from V26 into the Powder Magazine building of V27. Is it 4MF (2MF to move INTO the Gun Battery [CtR 2.4] and then 2 MF to enter a building)? If it is 4 MF, is this spent as a single expenditure of 4MF or as two seperate expenditures of 2MF?
It is 2MF to enter the Gun Battery and 2MF to enter the Powder Magazine. One can expend it as a single 4MF if you want. Think of the Powder Magazine as a building in the hex. One can expend 2MF to enter the hex (but not the building) or expend 4MF to enter the hex and the Powder Magazine.

2) Is the Stone building of a Powder Magazine considered a seperate Location to units in that hex but not in the building?
No. The Powder Magazine is not a separate location in the hex (e.g., like a pillbox). Think of the Powder Magazine just like a 2-level building (level 0 and level -1) in the hex. You'll either be claiming the TEM of the building or not.

3) CtR 3.2: How many squad equivalents can be in hex V27? Is it 1 SE in the Powder Magazine Cellar, 1SE in the Fortified Stone building part and 2SE IN the Gun Battery partof hex V27?
Yes.

Or is the Powder Magazine hex of Gun Battery V27-W27 limited to having 2 Squad Equivalents (1SE in the Cellar and 1 SE in the Fortified Stone building)?
No. See answer above.

4) A unit is in the Fortified Bulding of a Powder magazine. what LOS does it have, given thatthat it shouldn't be able to gain Crest Status from in the building? LOS only to adjacent units or to units that have LOS INTO the Depression hex?
It would have LOS to units that have LOS INTO the Depression hex (i.e., reciprocal LOS) . Generally that means you have to be adjacent, but even being adjacent does not necessary allow LOS (e.g., F6/G6).

5) A unit is adjacent to or has LOS INTO the Depression hex of a Gun battery. What TEM does a unit in tyhe gun battery have?
+3. Note the differences if the guys IN the Gun Pit choose to go into Crest Status (B20.9)
 
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Jon

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Hi

Thanks for the response and answers

So to clarify, it is possible in a Powder magazine hex such as hex V27 to have the following:

1 squad in the building Cellar Location
1 squad in the the building Location
1 squad IN the Gun Battery Location
1 squad in Crest Staus in the Gun battery Location

Cheers
Jon
 
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KenYoung

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To piggyback this thread, more questions.

8271

Because a Gun Battery Hex (W27) is a level -1 Depression hex (A6.3). Can units in a Trench in X27, use B27.6 LOWER-LEVEL LOCATIONS: to move directly into W27 (as they could to enter Y27)?

Question #2 Will the Powder Magazine (V27), have any effect on a Cave (G11) placed in the same hex (CA V28)? Or is such placement NA?
 

rreinesch

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Hi

Thanks for the response and answers

So to clarify, it is possible in a Powder magazine hex such as hex V27 to have the following:

1 squad in the building Cellar Location
1 squad in the the building Location
1 squad IN the Gun Battery Location
1 squad in Crest Staus in the Gun battery Location

Cheers
Jon
Yes.
 

rreinesch

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To piggyback this thread, more questions.

View attachment 8271

Because a Gun Battery Hex (W27) is a level -1 Depression hex (A6.3). Can units in a Trench in X27, use B27.6 LOWER-LEVEL LOCATIONS: to move directly into W27 (as they could to enter Y27)?
Yes.

Question #2 Will the Powder Magazine (V27), have any effect on a Cave (G11) placed in the same hex (CA V28)? Or is such placement NA?
Such placement is N/A.
 

Will Fleming

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To piggyback this thread, more questions.

View attachment 8271

Because a Gun Battery Hex (W27) is a level -1 Depression hex (A6.3). Can units in a Trench in X27, use B27.6 LOWER-LEVEL LOCATIONS: to move directly into W27 (as they could to enter Y27)?

Question #2 Will the Powder Magazine (V27), have any effect on a Cave (G11) placed in the same hex (CA V28)? Or is such placement NA?
To follow up on this, can a US unit IN the Trench go directly to W27 IN the Gun Battery (which is fortified) as if it were RB?

Say an enemy squad was IN W27, does any squad there have to be pinned to advance in (from the trench)?
 
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rreinesch

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To follow up on this, can a US unit IN the Trench go directly to W27 IN the Gun Battery (which is fortified) as if it were RB?
To clarify, W27 is not fortified. The only part of the gun battery that is considered fortified is the powder magazine (V27). Assumption being that the US player owns the trench. Yes a unit in a trench can do directly from the trench into the gun battery (since it is level -1 Depression hex). Now if you are asking if a unit IN the trench can go into the cellar location of V27 like RB, the answer is no.

Say an enemy squad was IN W27, does any squad there have to be pinned to advance in (from the trench)?
No, again, since W27 is not considered fortified.
 

Will Fleming

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Should the wording on this be "hex only" instead of building? Building to me implies both hexes of the depiction.

3.1 Located in every Gun Battery and Mortar Pit [EXC: Battery Geary] is a Stone Building (EX: C23). This building is treated as a "Fortified" (B23.921-.922), Level 1 stone building (ie: the top of the building depiction is even with the upper "lip" of the gun battery/mortar pit). There is a stairway (indicated by a red center dot) Which leads beneath each of these fortified stone buildings to a cellar location which is the powder magazine for that Gun Battery/Mortar Pit. There is no upper level in these buildings.

To me that says pretty clearly that the entire building is fortified, not just the one hex.

Are both rally terrain? (red dot hex and non-red dot hex)
 

rreinesch

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Should the wording on this be "hex only" instead of building? Building to me implies both hexes of the depiction.

3.1 Located in every Gun Battery and Mortar Pit [EXC: Battery Geary] is a Stone Building (EX: C23). This building is treated as a "Fortified" (B23.921-.922), Level 1 stone building (ie: the top of the building depiction is even with the upper "lip" of the gun battery/mortar pit). There is a stairway (indicated by a red center dot) Which leads beneath each of these fortified stone buildings to a cellar location which is the powder magazine for that Gun Battery/Mortar Pit. There is no upper level in these buildings.

To me that says pretty clearly that the entire building is fortified, not just the one hex.

Are both rally terrain? (red dot hex and non-red dot hex)
Your reference to 3.1 for begin fortified is within the section for the powder magazine, not the gun battery as a whole. Hex W27 and hex V27 make up the gun battery. Only hex V27 contains the powder magazine, thereby it is the only hex of the gun battery that contains that fortified building.

Only the powder magazine is rally terrain (since it is the only part of the gun battery that contains a building).
 

ASLSARGE

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I guess it is time I joined in to help Rick out. He is normally 110% correct, but this time it is a little off. Not his fault, most likely mine. Let's tackle your questions Will as best as I can. We will use Battery Wheeler for our example.
Battery Wheeler is made up of hexes V27 and W27. The base level of the gun battery is Level 1 since the adjacent surrounding terrain is a Level 2 hill. The floor of the gun battery is paved in concrete (as were the walls - more on that later). In hex V27 is a one level fortified stone building. This building has a stairwell, represented by the red center dot, that leads down one level (Level 0) to the cellar. The cellar location is the Powder Magazine.....not the stone building (see 3.1). The building merely provided egress to the powder magazine. Both the stone building and the cellar have a normal stacking limit of one squad/equivalent plus their SW's and up to three SMC. No overstacking is permitted in those two locations. Another squad/equivalent may also be placed in Crest status in hex V27 which matches the normal ASL stacking limit of three squad/equivalents per hex. Another three squad/equivalents plus their SW and SMC may set up in hex W27. They may be located on the floor and/or in Crest status in that hex.
Nothing in that gun battery rises above the "lip" of the adjacent surrounding terrain so there is no hindrance to any LOS/LOF that crosses V27 and/or W27....barring smoke or other unusual issues such as an AFV parked on the adjacent terrain.
As you pointed out there is an error in the 2.1 example with regards to the American 666 w/HMG firing at R8.....my mistake. We will have Rick add this to the known errata. Dang Level 2 jungle.........;)
Battery Geary (VV29/VV30) is different in its depiction from all the other gun batteries since in 1942 it was obliterated by a Japanese 240mm HE shell which penetrated the powder magazine. To reflect that difference we displayed the "outer walls" along a couple of hexsides to show where LOS/LOF could be affected (ie, units would receive some TEM/hindrance benefit), and did not display those outer walls on the remaining hexsides to show they had been "blown away". Again, trying to keep things as ASL-like as possible without a lot of new rules and situations.
The original hand drawn map had the floor of the gun batteries a much different shade of grey than that of the stone building. I am no graphics expert but I assume there was a technical reason why the different shade could not be reproduced on the final digital map. On my digital HASL map the stone building is a slightly lighter shade of grey than that of the "floor" of the gun battery, but I can see were someone could mistake both hexes (v27/W27) as being a building....or as you referred to it, a "pseudo building". Trust me, there is a real building in V27....no pseudo buildings on the Corregidor map.
As per HBR 3, Japanese infantry in the cellar (Powder magazine) are automatically treated as Fanatic. Those in the building above do not receive this automatic Fanatic status.
I hope that clears some issues up for you Will, and for you too Rick. Drop me an email or phone me and we can get these issues added to the known errata for Coors.....so we are both on the same page. No sense in you answering a question if I am not available to get yelled at. :)
 

Jon

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Battery Wheeler is made up of hexes V27 and W27. The base level of the gun battery is Level 1 since the adjacent surrounding terrain is a Level 2 hill. The floor of the gun battery is paved in concrete (as were the walls - more on that later). In hex V27 is a one level fortified stone building. This building has a stairwell, represented by the red center dot, that leads down one level (Level 0) to the cellar. The cellar location is the Powder Magazine.....not the stone building (see 3.1). The building merely provided egress to the powder magazine. Both the stone building and the cellar have a normal stacking limit of one squad/equivalent plus their SW's and up to three SMC. No overstacking is permitted in those two locations. Another squad/equivalent may also be placed in Crest status in hex V27 which matches the normal ASL stacking limit of three squad/equivalents per hex. Another three squad/equivalents plus their SW and SMC may set up in hex W27. They may be located on the floor and/or in Crest status in that hex.
Questioning the above on stacking limits. Normal ASL stacking limit is 3 squads per Location, not per hex

So for Hex V27, wouldn't the following be true?

Cellar Location [or Powder Magazine]: This Locatino is at Level 0 and may contain 1 squad [who is Fanatic]. The Cellar location may not be overstacked

Stone building above powder magazine: This is at Level 1 and the building may contain 1 squad [who is NOT Fanatic].The building may not be overstacked. The Location may also contain another 2 squads [who may be located In the Gun battery (ie on the floor of the battery) and/or in Crest Status in that Location.
This would then give the normal stacking limit of 3 squads for a location, being the Level 1 Location of hex V27, while the Cellar location [Level 0] has a stacking limit of 1 squad and overstacking is NA

Cheers
Jon
 

rreinesch

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Questioning the above on stacking limits. Normal ASL stacking limit is 3 squads per Location, not per hex

So for Hex V27, wouldn't the following be true?

Cellar Location [or Powder Magazine]: This Locatino is at Level 0 and may contain 1 squad [who is Fanatic]. The Cellar location may not be overstacked

Stone building above powder magazine: This is at Level 1 and the building may contain 1 squad [who is NOT Fanatic].The building may not be overstacked. The Location may also contain another 2 squads [who may be located In the Gun battery (ie on the floor of the battery) and/or in Crest Status in that Location.
This would then give the normal stacking limit of 3 squads for a location, being the Level 1 Location of hex V27, while the Cellar location [Level 0] has a stacking limit of 1 squad and overstacking is NA

Cheers
Jon
Correct
 
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