CtR Questions: CtR-12 related primarily

Will Fleming

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Some questions came up prepping for this one. Bold by me for emphasis, the actual questions (also by me) in blue.

[Question 1]

In the 2.1 EX:

2.1 There are five Gun Batteries (EX: V27/W27) and two Mortar Pits (EX: EE2/FF3) depicted on the C:tR map. These two types of locations are treated exactly the same. A Gun Battery/Mortar Pit is a level -1 Depression hex (A6.3) [EXC: Battery Geary (2.3)]; i.e., a unit IN it is one level lower than it would be if the Gun Battery/Mortar Pit were not present. A unit IN a Gun Battery/Mortar Pit cannot see any other Depression hex unless it is adjacent and connected by a Depression hexside. A unit IN a Gun Battery/Mortar Pit receives a +3 DRM to all Direct Fire attacks and +5 DRM for all Indirect Fire/OBA/NOBA/Aerial attacks. Units in a Gun/Mortar Pit may go into Crest status. All rules for Crest Status (B20.9) apply.

EX: A Japanese 4-4-7 is in gun battery hex R8 in Crest status along R8-Q7/Q8/R9. An American 6-6-6 with a HMG is in hex I7. Barring any other hindrances, when the American unit fires at the Japanese squad the shot incurs a +3 DRM (2.1). If the American squad possessed a 60mm mortar instead of the HMG and fired at the same Japanese unit, the shot would incur a +0 TH DRM due to Crest Status (B20.92). If the Japanese squad were IN gun battery hex R8, the American squad would have no LOS to that Japanese unit unless adjacent or with LOS INTO the Depression hex (A6.3).


8470

1a) Isn't the LOS blocked by the light jungle in M7? All jungle is a level 2 obstacle.
1b) Assuming the jungle in M7 was not there, why does the "Crest" Japanese unit get +3 TEM? Shouldn't that be +2 (Crest TEM?) since it is not IN the Gun Battery.


[Question 2]

Footnote 18:

There are five coastal Gun Batteries depicted on the Corregidor map; these are Wheeler (V27), Cheney (C23), Smith (C11), Grubbs (G6) and Heam (aka Smith II — R7). There are two Mortar Pits on the map; these are the ruins of Geary (W29) and Way (EE2). These positions were approximately 100 feet in diameter and the floor was sunk into the ground 6-10 feet. This design made it easy to change the gun's CA to engage various targets, but left the guns and crews extremely vulnerable to counter-battery fire and aerial attacks. Having concrete walls and floors made shrapnel or bullets ricochet around until they encountered a "soft" target; usually one of the crewmen. That is the reason for the shift to the right on the IFT for attacks against units in these locations. Despite numerous shell impacts, the floors and walls have mostly small chips knocked out of them.

2) Where do the rules talk about this shift to the right on the IFT?

[Question 3]

3.3 CELLARS: Units in the cellar location may only be attacked from units located in the building above, or in the cellar location itself during the CCPh.

3a) So if a banzai charge or berserker entered a cellar location with an enemy unit, there would be no fire (defensive first/subs/final nor adv fire)?

3b) I assume a DC could be placed in either direction.

3c) Can units IN the cellar fire at units in the building above?


[Question 4]

There are only 3 places a unit can be in hex R7. At crest status, IN the 'psudo-building' at depression level, and further down IN the cellar. i.e. there is no non-crest, non-gun battery status?

[Question 5]

The US can enter from off map and only part of the map is used.


5a) What is the cost to enter U20? 1MF or 2MF?
5b) What is the cost to enter Y20? 1MF? 2MF? 4MF?
8471
 
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rreinesch

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Some questions came up prepping for this one. Bold by me for emphasis, the actual questions (also by me) in blue.

[Question 1]

In the 2.1 EX:

2.1 There are five Gun Batteries (EX: V27/W27) and two Mortar Pits (EX: EE2/FF3) depicted on the C:tR map. These two types of locations are treated exactly the same. A Gun Battery/Mortar Pit is a level -1 Depression hex (A6.3) [EXC: Battery Geary (2.3)]; i.e., a unit IN it is one level lower than it would be if the Gun Battery/Mortar Pit were not present. A unit IN a Gun Battery/Mortar Pit cannot see any other Depression hex unless it is adjacent and connected by a Depression hexside. A unit IN a Gun Battery/Mortar Pit receives a +3 DRM to all Direct Fire attacks and +5 DRM for all Indirect Fire/OBA/NOBA/Aerial attacks. Units in a Gun/Mortar Pit may go into Crest status. All rules for Crest Status (B20.9) apply.

EX: A Japanese 4-4-7 is in gun battery hex R8 in Crest status along R8-Q7/Q8/R9. An American 6-6-6 with a HMG is in hex I7. Barring any other hindrances, when the American unit fires at the Japanese squad the shot incurs a +3 DRM (2.1). If the American squad possessed a 60mm mortar instead of the HMG and fired at the same Japanese unit, the shot would incur a +0 TH DRM due to Crest Status (B20.92). If the Japanese squad were IN gun battery hex R8, the American squad would have no LOS to that Japanese unit unless adjacent or with LOS INTO the Depression hex (A6.3).


View attachment 8470

1a) Isn't the LOS blocked by the light jungle in M7? All jungle is a level 2 obstacle.
Yep. You are correct.

1b) Assuming the jungle in M7 was not there, why does the "Crest" Japanese unit get +3 TEM? Shouldn't that be +2 (Crest TEM?) since it is not IN the Gun Battery.
The unit in crest status still gets the +3 TEM benefit for direct fire through it's front covered arc since that is the Direct Fire TEM of the hex (think of it as a concrete foxhole when referencing B27.3).


[Question 2]

Footnote 18:

There are five coastal Gun Batteries depicted on the Corregidor map; these are Wheeler (V27), Cheney (C23), Smith (C11), Grubbs (G6) and Heam (aka Smith II — R7). There are two Mortar Pits on the map; these are the ruins of Geary (W29) and Way (EE2). These positions were approximately 100 feet in diameter and the floor was sunk into the ground 6-10 feet. This design made it easy to change the gun's CA to engage various targets, but left the guns and crews extremely vulnerable to counter-battery fire and aerial attacks. Having concrete walls and floors made shrapnel or bullets ricochet around until they encountered a "soft" target; usually one of the crewmen. That is the reason for the shift to the right on the IFT for attacks against units in these locations. Despite numerous shell impacts, the floors and walls have mostly small chips knocked out of them.

2) Where do the rules talk about this shift to the right on the IFT?
If you check out the errata for CtR on the Support page of the BFP website, you'll notice that that sentence has been removed.

[Question 3]

3.3 CELLARS: Units in the cellar location may only be attacked from units located in the building above, or in the cellar location itself during the CCPh.

3a) So if a banzai charge or berserker entered a cellar location with an enemy unit, there would be no fire (defensive first/subs/final nor adv fire)?
Remember that the cellar location of the powder magazine is fortified. So unless the unit in the cellar was a HS, the berserk unit isn't getting in there. A berserk/banzai unit entering the hex would still be susceptible to PBF when entering the location above the cellar and TPBF when the enemy unit enters the cellar location during the MPh.
3b) I assume a DC could be placed in either direction.

As long as it meets the rules for dealing with fortified locations.


3c) Can units IN the cellar fire at units in the building above?
Yes. The building location above is the only LOS the units in the Cellar have.

[Question 4]

There are only 3 places a unit can be in hex R7. At crest status, IN the 'psudo-building' at depression level, and further down IN the cellar. i.e. there is no non-crest, non-gun battery status?

You need to treat the powder magazine exactly as a stone building. A unit can be in hex R7, but only one squad/equivalent can claim the building TEM/be considered IN the building location. The remainder will be in the hex but outside of the building. (Like a unit can be in a building hex claiming WA. That unit is in the building hex but is not considered IN the building location.)

[Question 5]

The US can enter from off map and only part of the map is used.


5a) What is the cost to enter U20? 1MF or 2MF?

1MF
5b) What is the cost to enter Y20? 1MF? 2MF? 4MF?
View attachment 8471
1MF
 

Will Fleming

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Thanks much, but still trying to wrap my head around these things. They are depressions, so I don't think there is a building there to block LOS. Say a same-level LOS goes 'through' a Gun Battery hex. Does the Gun Battery hex 'block' LOS like a building or is the building sort of buried in the ground and lets the LOS go through?

So using the first image above and again disregarding jungle:

7a) Can I7 see S6?
7b) Can H7 (actually up a level effectively, so not same level) see T7?

My brain is currently configured to see the building as buried in the earth with a concrete top that has a 2-3 foot wall around the top. I can't really grasp treating it as a 'building' while at the same time thinking it is a 'concrete foxhole'.

I assume non-covered arc TEM for a unit in crest status is zero?
 

rreinesch

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Thanks much, but still trying to wrap my head around these things. They are depressions, so I don't think there is a building there to block LOS. Say a same-level LOS goes 'through' a Gun Battery hex. Does the Gun Battery hex 'block' LOS like a building or is the building sort of buried in the ground and lets the LOS go through?
The Gun Batteries are sunk down in the ground -1 level. There is nothing above the base level of the hex (if the Gun Battery was not present) to block LOS.

So using the first image above and again disregarding jungle:

7a) Can I7 see S6?
Yes.

7b) Can H7 (actually up a level effectively, so not same level) see T7?
Yes.

My brain is currently configured to see the building as buried in the earth with a concrete top that has a 2-3 foot wall around the top. I can't really grasp treating it as a 'building' while at the same time thinking it is a 'concrete foxhole'.
The only 'building', per se, in a gun battery is the Powder Magazine. The rest of the battery is basically a very large, concrete lined hole in the ground. The top (roof) of the powder magazine rises up to be equal to the lip of the gun battery outer walls, so it doesn't block LOS traced across it.

I assume non-covered arc TEM for a unit in crest status is zero?
Correct.
 

Will Fleming

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In regards to HBR #3, there are two 'locations' in the Powder magazine.

Are they fanatic in the hex, outside the 'pseudo-building' and also outside the cellar? Crest status or no?

Are they fanatic in the cellar location?

Are they fanatic in all locations/statuses other than the 'psuedo-building'?
 

rreinesch

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In regards to HBR #3, there are two 'locations' in the Powder magazine.

Are they fanatic in the hex, outside the 'pseudo-building' and also outside the cellar? Crest status or no?
The 2 locations in the powder magazine are the main level and cellar. They are fanatic IN the powder magazine (i.e., the building) (the cellar). For those units on the main level of the powder magazine building and outside the powder magazine (including those in Crest status), they are not fanatic.

Are they fanatic in the cellar location?
Yes.

Are they fanatic in all locations/statuses other than the 'psuedo-building'?
No.
 
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Will Fleming

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As in should it read [EXC: This does not apply to any units outside the building above the Powder Magazine].

I would suggest in the future to use some other color than something similar to stone buildings for these, with perhaps the tiny building depiction being in 'stone' color and the rest being in something else. Purple or Pink if you really want to be 'bold'. :)

I am sure the brain power at BFP can come up with something much better than my idea. (not joking)
 

rreinesch

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As in should it read [EXC: This does not apply to any units outside the building above the Powder Magazine].

I would suggest in the future to use some other color than something similar to stone buildings for these, with perhaps the tiny building depiction being in 'stone' color and the rest being in something else. Purple or Pink if you really want to be 'bold'. :)

I am sure the brain power at BFP can come up with something much better than my idea. (not joking)
I honestly originally thought that the big red dot in the hex was sufficient to designate the powder magazine. I'll try and come up with something more distinctive.
 

rreinesch

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How does this work with the EXC on HBR#3?

View attachment 8490
The guys down in the cellar of the powder magazine building are fanatic. The units in the location above it are not. Both of the locations are considered fortified. Anyone outside of the powder magazine building, but in the hex (anyone not claiming the powder magazine fortified TEM or in Crest status in the hex), are also not fanatic.

Remember that only one squad/squad equivalent can be in each of the powder magazine building locations. You can still have 3 squads equivalents in the Gun Battery location, it's just that only one of them can be in the upper level of powder magazine (taking advantage of the fortified nature of the powder magazine "building" in the hex), while the rest are standing outside of the powder magazine on the floor of the gun battery or in crest status at the lip of the gun battery in the hex.
 
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Will Fleming

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Thanks much. I hope I don't come off as <insert negative adjective> in this and don't mean to endlessly make nit-picking comments, but hope to understand these things.

The guys (and gals?) at BFP are great with getting good product out and providing perhaps the best customer support out there, especially when you consider the sticky errata for non-BFP stuff. Hopefully my opponent and I can get through this one without too much trouble now.
 
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rreinesch

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Thanks much. I hope I don't come off as <insert negative adjective> in this and don't mean to endlessly make nit-picking comments, but hope to understand these things.

The guys (and gals?) at BFP are great with getting good product out and providing perhaps the best customer support out there, especially when you consider the sticky errata for non-BFP stuff. Hopefully my opponent and I can get through this one without too much trouble now.
Just hope we can help make your experience with our products as smooth and fun as possible.
 

ASLSARGE

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Will.....no negative adjective needed. I do appreciate it when someone questions our work or offers criticism as much as when they offer praise. It shows an interest. If no one questioned our designs, then I would be worried. I don't take the criticisms personally as they are aimed at the product....that, and I normally have my BIG BOY pants on so I can handle it. If no one criticized or questioned what we delivered, THEN I would be concerned. Thank you for spending your hard-earned money on our stuff. There is a lot offered out there in the world of ASL so when anyone puts their trust in our products, that makes my day. Enjoy. Always glad to try to help out when I can. BTW - Bloodied at Wheeler was one of the very first scenarios I designed for Coors.....and it was always a favorite of the play testers. Have fun!
 
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