Croix de Guerre Second Edition now available for preorder.

hongkongwargamer

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I have all the "New" core modules (i.e., everything but CdG and HL), and I will definitely need the previously-in-CdG overlays to play the scenarios physically, to answer @bprobst 's question.

It's been a while since I tallied this up, but of the scenarios that I own but don't have the physical kit for, the CdG overlays are probably the biggest thing I'm missing in terms of "number of scenarios I can now play once I have them". The previous biggest thing was the American OB and the CdG boards, so I was happy to get those in Yanks. #2 at the moment are the AP boards that are in CdG, so I'm happy to be getting those.

This is definitely an annoyance for me. I have no interest in the overlay module, which may never come out (and as Bruce points out, will not be a long-term solution if the map bundles are any indication), and will come out god-knows-when, and will include only overlays that I already have, except for the CdG ones. Unless they also withhold to the overlays from the upcoming HL, which it seems would be a huge slap in the face to consumers, if I understand correctly how overlays function in DTO. Obviously this a problem that is specific to when I joined the hobby, and since I mostly play VASL anyway, it's not a dealbreaker.

@hongkongwargamer asked whether it would keep me from buying CdG. No, it won't, but that's not the only question worth asking. This definitely annoys me, and it makes me trust MMP less. Not much, for now, but between VASL and BGD and a million other TPP, MMP doesn't have enough of a monopoly that they can annoy their customers forever. And how will they know whether they have annoyed us if we don't talk about it? I think that everybody should -- not can, should -- express their preferences on these things so that MMP knows how best to serve their customer base. So keep it coming, people who have both opinions! Or third and fourth and fifth opinions!
Hahahah .. from where I am, it's too much of a first world problem to bother. It's a game. I will either buy it. Or not buy it. Hence my question.

But heck - there are more direct ways to let companies know what you think other than chatting on a forum if that's how you feel. Or perhaps you are doing that already. Good luck! :)
 

boylermaker

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As a huge contrarian myself, of course I understand that it is too much bother to complain about dropped overlays, but not too much bother to interrogate the motives of those who are complaining. But you must understand that this only stokes my desire to meta-meta-complain, and so the cycle goes on forever....

As far as MMP goes, Perry and Chas are both in this thread, so I'm not sure there are more direct ways to complain to them, especially since you get your voice amplified or not proportional to how many people agree with you. If anything, it seems preferable to picketing, especially since it's raining in the DMV today.
 

hongkongwargamer

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I am expressing my preference as much as the next chap - which led to the whole bit about MMP not having any good options between existing owners and new folks as you saw above. In a free society (assuming this is still valid where you are), shouldn't we all bear to have our "motives" examined?

Here's mine:

The option I take is to look at all the scenarios I can get and plus the new CG I can play for the lower preorder price of $135 instead of $180. I made the determination that all that (plus shipping) is worth the price instead of going on about a couple of overlays I am not getting and some scenarios I can't play while still wanting to pay for the whole bit.

Plus personally, I don't often walk into a shop to complain about a product I haven't yet bought.

Hey - I am a glass half full kinda guy, or should we say, more than half full.

MMP has done a tremendous amount for our hobby over the years and on that it has more than "earned" my trust (and customer service is second to none). I came to the hobby after a decades old hiatus thinking that Squad Leader's long dead. Not having a couple of overlays in a module I haven't yet bought is not going to kill that.

I hear you though : not having all the necessary overlays is clearly not ideal, but I, for one, am willing to give them the benefit of a doubt.
 

sswann

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Overlays are not stopping me.
The stopper is the cost for what is essentially two modules, when I wanted just one.
 

Roy

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I know of three veteran ASL players (including me) who were interested in Dinant, but will not be purchasing CdG2 just to get it. It saddens me, but I think (without any evidence) that it seems the thought process was, if we include Dinant in CdG2 we will sell way more of them than if we split it up. My favorite nationality to play is French. But I am not going to buy what I already have, which are still in almost perfect condition, just to get a HASL. And yes, if the HASL was available separately, I would buy it in a second. I want MMP to be successful and I am indebted to them for providing me the opportunity to continue to play this game, but I won't be supporting this product.

JMO
 

BattleSchool

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MMP are making an "effort" to create map bundles? They created one that is now sold out, with no apparent intent to reprint, and several other boards are also now unavailable because they have no apparent intent to reprint them either.
My understanding is that there is no longer a need to reprint the initial map bundle (boards 1-52, and t-z), as the maps from it are, for the most part (i.e., those not out of stock) available separately.

MMP had expressed intent to print a second map bundle that would cover maps 53+ (to some unknown number). But I haven't seen much talk of this lately. I'd prefer if they simply reprinted boards 53+ and make them available for purchase separately.

RS and Yanks2 included some overlays specifically for that reason.
I don't recall Yanks (1st or 2nd edition) including overlays. Had Yanks 2 included all of the overlays necessary to play the scenarios in the new edition, it would have included about ten of the CdG overlays (e.g., OGx, and Xxx). At least three scenarios in Yanks 2 require these overlays. Another five scenarios in Yanks 2 need overlays released in Rising Sun. But that still leaves more than 30 scenarios in Yanks 2 that can be played using only what comes in the box (and BV3).
 

bprobst

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Making boards "available for purchase separately" is a terrible way of making boards available (especially since, in fact, not all of the boards are available for separate purchase, as a quick browse of the MMP web site will show). It's slightly less terrible than not making the boards available at all, but that's hardly a recommendation. In any case it's only true to say that "all of the boards are otherwise available" when all of the core modules they come with are in print (i.e., it's not a true statement). The map bundle was an excellent solution for the problem of MMP being unable to keep core modules in print. So, naturally, it appears to have been canned. Map Bundle 2 would be an excellent solution for the unavailability of most boards numbered higher than 52, so naturally MMP seem very lukewarm on the concept.

There were no overlays in Yanks1. There are overlays in Yanks2, supplied for the purpose of being able to play all of the included scenarios (assuming that you are otherwise up-to-date with all core modules) (funny, I could have sworn I just said that already). The failure to similarly include at least the "minimum set" of overlays in the new CdG is mystifying, almost as mystifying as the decision to not include all of the original CdG overlays.
 

Uncle_Duke

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There are overlays in Yanks2, supplied for the purpose of being able to play all of the included scenarios (assuming that you are otherwise up-to-date with all core modules) (funny, I could have sworn I just said that already). The failure to similarly include at least the "minimum set" of overlays in the new CdG is mystifying, almost as mystifying as the decision to not include all of the original CdG overlays.
There were no overlays included in Yanks 2nd Ed either. There are a few extras in Armies of Oblivion 2nd Ed though, which may be what you're thinking of.

I completely agree with your point regarding overlays in CdG 2nd Ed.
 

jrv

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The "What's included" insert for Yanks 2nd Ed does not mention any overlays. Box & lid, eight maps, six countersheets, American Chapter H (24 pages), 22 scenario cards.

JR
 

sdennis

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My brother just did his order for CdG but I declined to get one with him... like most here as a long time player I have enough counters that I can't sort and enough scenarios I don't play... having my brother get Dinant is good enough for both of us, although it will make switching houses more difficult if I don't have my own map.

I would have ordered Dinant if sold separately.
 

BattleSchool

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Making boards "available for purchase separately" is a terrible way of making boards available (especially since, in fact, not all of the boards are available for separate purchase, as a quick browse of the MMP web site will show). It's slightly less terrible than not making the boards available at all, but that's hardly a recommendation. In any case it's only true to say that "all of the boards are otherwise available" when all of the core modules they come with are in print (i.e., it's not a true statement). The map bundle was an excellent solution for the problem of MMP being unable to keep core modules in print. So, naturally, it appears to have been canned. Map Bundle 2 would be an excellent solution for the unavailability of most boards numbered higher than 52, so naturally MMP seem very lukewarm on the concept.
As I said earlier in this thread (with the proviso below), I think that making boards available separately makes more economic (and warehousing) sense for MMP and its customers. MMP has never claimed that it would keep all or even most core modules in stock. The only core module that they endeavour to stock on a regular basis is BV3.

What's more likely: that MMP will be able to stock 15 core modules, two map bundles, and an overlay bundle concurrently, or that MMP can regularly stock BV3, the ASLRB, and the majority of more than 100 boards and overlay sheets?

It's unrealistic to expect that all boards will be in stock at all times. (The vagaries of demand and the need to fit print runs into a broader production schedule are never going to align.) But the fact remains that the majority of those numbered 1-52 are in stock, and have remained so since the release of the first map bundle.

Post 153: I would be fine with MMP dropping the boards from future print runs. Less overall production costs per module, and lowered shipping weight (about 400g in the case of FKaC) would make later printings more affordable, as players need only purchase boards that they are missing. The proviso, of course, is that MMP continues to make boards available separately.
The failure to similarly include at least the "minimum set" of overlays in the new CdG is mystifying, almost as mystifying as the decision to not include all of the original CdG overlays.
I think this stems from MMP's decision to incorporate the Dinant HASL in the module, and the intent to release an overlay bundle (shortly). Given the complaints on this thread regarding the current price point, I agree that MMP missed the Sturmboot on this. But imagine the outcry if price of the module was 10% higher than it currently is because the overlays had been included (along with DInant).

IMO, MMP should have offered a HASL-free version of CdG. (It's not like MMP hasn't gone this route before, e.g., Armies of Oblivion with mounted or unmounted boards, or Red October-only vs the RB and RO combo).

Given the length of time that CdG has been out of print, the overlays that came with this module are the most difficult for new players to source. Moreover, these overlays are used in hundreds of other previously-published scenarios. Therefore, I would have argued for both versions of CdG to include the original overlays. Not everyone will need (or even want) the other overlays in the proposed overlay bundle.
 

klasmalmstrom

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MMP had expressed intent to print a second map bundle that would cover maps 53+ (to some unknown number). But I haven't seen much talk of this lately.
Map Bundle 2 would be an excellent solution for the unavailability of most boards numbered higher than 52, so naturally MMP seem very lukewarm on the concept.
Map Bundle 2 is still lingering on MMP's pre-order page - it sits at 386 out of 450 (needed).

Although it's been quite some time since it was put up for pre-order, that page says: preorder: March 28, 2017.

Which does make one wonder if it will ever become a reality.
 

ineation

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My dream offering would be an online access to a library of high res / good quality (ie not VASL) vector files for all maps and scenarios (with whatever business model, one shot payments and/or subscription).
Then I can either print on my A4/Letter laserjet on 200g cardboard (the quality is great with current tech) or - for bigger maps - print them at my local printshop. This way you could also print exactly the perimeter you need for your scenario.

This way, the only thing to keep in inventory would be countersheets !
 

Robin Reeve

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Map Bundle 2 is still lingering on MMP's pre-order page - it sits at 386 out of 450 (needed).

Although it's been quite some time since it was put up for pre-order, that page says: preorder: March 28, 2017.

Which does make one wonder if it will ever become a reality.
The first bundle was a success, because many players wanted to move from the mounted boards to the sk style ones.
Boards 53+ never were published mounted, so most of the players who already have them don't see the use to purchase another copy of them.
I think that this is the main reason why the second bundle doesn't seem successful.
 

Ric of The LBC

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The first bundle was a success, because many players wanted to move from the mounted boards to the sk style ones.
Boards 53+ never were published mounted, so most of the players who already have them don't see the use to purchase another copy of them.
I think that this is the main reason why the second bundle doesn't seem successful.
I bought the 1st map bundle 2 years ago when I got back into ASL and I saw that it was no longer available from MMP, I think I got the last one in existence from RitterKrieg. I would have got the supplemental one also at that time. Since then I've acquired almost all the WO and Action Packs so there is no need. The only board I don't have are the 6 with AP 4 and AP8.
 

BattleSchool

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The first bundle was a success, because many players wanted to move from the mounted boards to the sk style ones.
Boards 53+ never were published mounted, so most of the players who already have them don't see the use to purchase another copy of them.
I think that this is the main reason why the second bundle doesn't seem successful.
This is the main reason why I contend that it would be better to offer these maps for sale as singles and/or as small bundles that coincide with how they were initially released (e.g., in an Action/WO Pack).
 

BattleSchool

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I bought the 1st map bundle 2 years ago when I got back into ASL and I saw that it was no longer available from MMP, I think I got the last one in existence from RitterKrieg.
Last I checked, I had two map bundles (1-52, t-z) in storage. I have no interest in stocking the second map bundle, should MMP ever release one. As you and Robin have pointed out, there would be little demand for a complete set of these newer boards.
 
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