Croix de Guerre and Hollow Legions question

Honza

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About 20 years ago.....are you getting impatient?
 

xenovin

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When did Croix de Guerre and Hollow Legions go out of print?
CdG was printed by AH in 1992 and never reprinted after they went under while MMP reprinted HL in 2000.
 

Evan Sherry

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CdG was printed by AH in 1992 and never reprinted after they went under while MMP reprinted HL in 2000.
I'm aware of all of that. The question is when did they go out of print. I'm curious what year it was. The Italians are all but forgotten in ASL because there is no desert module in print. Desert ASL is probably the least played of all topics.
 
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Ric of The LBC

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I'm aware of all of that. The question is when did they go out of print. I'm curious what year it was. The Italians are all but forgotten in ASL because there is no desert module in print. Desert ASL is probably the least played of all topics.
Is the question: When was the last retail copy sold? My guess is there was only one print run for Cdg and the 2000 version of HL.
 

xenovin

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I'm aware of all of that. The question is when did they go out of print. I'm curious what year it was. The Italians are all but forgotten in ASL because there is no desert module in print. Desert ASL is probably the least played of all topics.
Typical MMP modules go OOP in 3-4 years. AH did much larger print runs but don’t remember MMP selling CdG so probably OOP when AH folded. Or are you looking for June 5, 2004 at 12:34 pm HL went OOP? Not sure if anyone has that kind of info.
 

Evan Sherry

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Typical MMP modules go OOP in 3-4 years. AH did much larger print runs but don’t remember MMP selling CdG so probably OOP when AH folded. Or are you looking for June 5, 2004 at 12:34 pm HL went OOP? Not sure if anyone has that kind of info.
The year they went out of print is what I'm interested in. Someone here probably does know that.
 

Evan Sherry

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You might want to take a look at the recent LFT#14.
I've seen it. I applaud their efforts to keep the Italian forces in ASL but I do not hold them responsible for doing so. Keeping the various boards and nationalities in print is for MMP not independent publishers. There are many players who do not purchase third party products nor should they have to do so to acquire the French or Italian game pieces.
 

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When I heard that AH was dying, I decided to buy extras. At the time a branch of what was once Virgin, possibly then Game, in Dublin was selling off nearly all board games at half price. So I bought a few CdG (2) and WoA (3) extras. From memories of other events in my life I would place that around 1998-2000. While there were a small number of specalist war boardgame suppliers in England that stocked it, that petered out with a year or two. So I suspect that when I bought my hoard, no more CdG were being shipped to retailers.
 

xenovin

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OK, using wayback machine, HL was out of print by 8/2008 (so eight years to sell out) and MMP was still selling 1992 AH printed CdG in 8/2009 (wayback wont pull up their web page after this date). So it took 20 years to sell out of the French. Now there's incentive to keep printing them!
 

Evan Sherry

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OK, using wayback machine, HL was out of print by 8/2008 (so eight years to sell out) and MMP was still selling 1992 AH printed CdG in 8/2009 (wayback wont pull up their web page after this date). So it took 20 years to sell out of the French. Now there's incentive to keep printing them!
Your "incentive" comment is interesting. How do you suggest that reprints of core ASL modules should be prioritized against each of the other out-of-print core modules?

Do the French rate a re-print before the British who are now headed for yet another printing?

With the original Croix de Guerre boards (40-41) now being included in Yanks 2nd Edition, do you expect MMP to reprint the French with some new geo-boards?

Do you think new geo-boards for the French re-print would be incentive enough for new or, more importantly, for players who already have the French to re-buy this product? Or would you be satisfied with the incentive provided by the addition of the Dinant Bridgehead components and no new geo-boards?

The question of when to print/re-print a given item and in what quantities are very important to producers of ASL. Since I have some experience in making such a decision (albeit on a much smaller scale), I do understand the considerations for production costs, projected sales/demand and warehousing just the right amount of product to meet the consumer demands. It is sometimes scary to write a check for the print job of a product when there is no way to be sure of how well it will sell. I recall a very interesting conversation I had with our friend Steve Dethlefsen one year at ASLOK. I listened and learned a lot from the printing experiences that he shared with me. When you see him, buy him a refreshing beverage and maybe he will share some of his insights into the ASL product publishing world.

The matter of Croix de Guerre is more complicated than just considering the numbers of Croix de Guerre modules sold from old stock inherited in the transition from AH to MMP stewardship of the hobby.
 
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Vinnie

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I think a lot may be determined by the cost of keeping stocks of a module. From what I gather, MMPhas to pay for warehousing and tax on stock so they try to keep tgat to a minimum. They are fortunate that they don't pay for playtesting and design. That element is controllable. I #suspect# the Brits will get a reprint before CdeG comes out and the French will be well before the Italians.
The reprint will be a very limited number though (500?, 1000.).
 

fenyan

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OK, using wayback machine, HL was out of print by 8/2008 (so eight years to sell out) and MMP was still selling 1992 AH printed CdG in 8/2009 (wayback wont pull up their web page after this date). So it took 20 years to sell out of the French. Now there's incentive to keep printing them!
I seem to recall it took a long time to sell out Yanks as well....
 

xenovin

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Your "incentive" comment is interesting. How do you suggest that reprints of core ASL modules should be prioritized against each of the other out-of-print core modules?

Do the French rate a re-print before the British who are now headed for yet another printing?

With the original Croix de Guerre boards (40-41) now being included in Yanks 2nd Edition, do you expect MMP to reprint the French with some new geo-boards?

Do you think new geo-boards for the French re-print would be incentive enough for new or, more importantly, for players who already have the French to re-buy this product? Or would you be satisfied with the incentive provided by the addition of the Dinant Bridgehead components and no new geo-boards?

The question of when to print/re-print a given item and in what quantities are very important to producers of ASL. Since I have some experience in making such a decision (albeit on a much smaller scale), I do understand the considerations for production costs, projected sales/demand and warehousing just the right amount of product to meet the consumer demands. It is sometimes scary to write a check for the print job of a product when there is no way to be sure of how well it will sell. I recall a very interesting conversation I had with our friend Steve Dethlefsen one year at ASLOK. I listened and learned a lot from the printing experiences that he shared with me. When you see him, buy him a refreshing beverage and maybe he will share some of his insights into the ASL product publishing world.

The matter of Croix de Guerre is more complicated than just considering the numbers of Croix de Guerre modules sold from old stock inherited in the transition from AH to MMP stewardship of the hobby.
Evan, you bring up all the challenges with reprinting modules and I think MMP does a good job with adding new material so that new and old owners get something out of it. The real challenge seems to be remastering the counter art and other module components as MMP has the rights but no legacy master files. Once that is done, it seems to me that MMP is able to keep a regular schedule of small print runs of needed modules (AoO comes to mind here). That there is still a demand for out of print material is a great sign that the hobby is doing well. Would I love just newcounter sheets for stuff I already own? Sure, but that doesn’t seem to be how they operate. They have a module that is working for them and it really is a very small group of people so I’m amazed with how much actually gets done.
 
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