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[Gunner Scott]

Hi-

To those of who do not like CH! and as much gnashing of the teeth the few of you seem to do about this company, how then do you account for his success at staying in business and actually making a living at selling wargames?


Scott

 

[Tater]

To those of who do not like CH! and as much gnashing of the teeth the few of you seem to do about this company, how then do you account for his success at staying in business and actually making a living at selling wargames?

“There's a sucker born every minute”
- PT Barnum

 

[SamB]

To those of who do not like CH! and as much gnashing of the teeth the few of you seem to do about this company, how then do you account for his success at staying in business and actually making a living at selling wargames?
​

Totaly irrelevant.

Lots of unethical people make a living selling all sorts of stuff. It doesn't mean I want to do business with them.

 

[Whizbang1963]

To those of who do not like CH! and as much gnashing of the teeth the few of you seem to do about this company, how then do you account for his success at staying in business and actually making a living at selling wargames?
​

Totaly irrelevant.

Lots of unethical people make a living selling all sorts of stuff. It doesn't mean I want to do business with them.

Long time no see Sam...Hope all is well in your world!

 

[trevpr1]

Hi-

To those of who do not like CH! and as much gnashing of the teeth the few of you seem to do about this company, how then do you account for his success at staying in business and actually making a living at selling wargames?


Scott

1. Never give a sucker an even break

2. There's a sucker born every minute.

3. You can fool some of the people twice.

 

[Whizbang1963]

Hi-

To those of who do not like CH! and as much gnashing of the teeth the few of you seem to do about this company, how then do you account for his success at staying in business and actually making a living at selling wargames?


Scott

Scott..who's to truly know. Like all publishers in our hobby it's not like Ray is going to post his sales figures for all of us to look at. We also have no idea what the percentage of their sales are ATS vs ASL Comp products. There are probably folks who buy each product for both games. The other question is this really all Ray does for a living? He might, like the guys at MMP, GMT, et. al. have some other gig(s) going on the side that is the source of his real income.

Don't know. Never had an issue with the items I purchased for ATS, before I decided not to pursue that line. Lots of issues with ASL Comp stuff. Only time will tell if the leopard has changed it's spots.

 

[Gunner Scott]

Hi Brian-

I'm just curious as to how CH! stay's in business just because there seem to be a few people who really dislike them and they make it known as much as possible here, yet CH! still chugs along. Hmmmm, maybe the rest of us just really dont care what the tates, the belchers, the king scotts and one or two others have say, the rest of us enjoy CH! products.


Scott

 

[Whizbang1963]

Hi Brian-

I'm just curious as to how CH! stay's in business just because there seem to be a few people who really dislike them and they make it known as much as possible here, yet CH! still chugs along. Hmmmm, maybe the rest of us just really dont care what the tates, the belchers, the king scotts and one or two others have say, the rest of us enjoy CH! products.


Scott

That's always possible Scott..there is a large group of folks who are members and I'm guessing there are lots of folk who don't post, just lurk. So there will always be fanboys and haters of each TPP. CH just has the longest history of bad product releases. They have a lot higher mountain to climb to regain public opinion, and for some like Tater and Sam, the damage is too great to overcome. No second or third chances from them for CH. So who knows. The future could bring positive changes that might convince others to give CH a try again..then again, maybe not. No crystal ball at my disposal to guess at that one.

 

[Gunner Scott]

Well said Brian!

Scott

That's always possible Scott..there is a large group of folks who are members and I'm guessing there are lots of folk who don't post, just lurk. So there will always be fanboys and haters of each TPP. CH just has the longest history of bad product releases. They have a lot higher mountain to climb to regain public opinion, and for some like Tater and Sam, the damage is too great to overcome. No second or third chances from them for CH. So who knows. The future could bring positive changes that might convince others to give CH a try again..then again, maybe not. No crystal ball at my disposal to guess at that one.

 

[King Scott]

Hmmmm, maybe the rest of us just really dont care what the tates, the belchers, the king scotts and one or two others have say, the rest of us enjoy CH! products.


Scott

For me (and many others that I have spoken to), the issue is not the products themselves being "enjoyable" or not. I think that we all can agree that Dave Lamb has performed well in his job and is responsible for the "quality" improvement of CH's products...I think that through Dave's efforts, CH has improved to the point that the old quality issues are moot in the current releases.

The insurmountable obstacle remains RT himself. I do not chose to do business with dishonest scumbags...especially ones that tell their customers to go to hell when asking for a refund of a product that was not delivered.

As an example, Toktong Pass may be the greatest ASL product ever designed and released...but I'll never buy it because I will never again put money in RT's pocket, so I'll just wait for MMP's version (or any other TPP's version for that matter).

The modules/HASLs/scenario packs themselves are not the issue...it's RT and his dishonest business practices that people object to.

Semper Fi!
Scott

 

[Portal]

I refuse to let any real and/or perceived nonsense with Tapio get in the way of my proper support and interest for the ASL-related design work Dave Lamb is doing and succeeding with.

It's kind of disappointing the negativity around RT is getting in the way for some of the positivity Dave L is bringing to the game. Glass half-empty, or half-full?

 

[pward]

I refuse to let any real and/or perceived nonsense with Tapio get in the way of my proper support and interest for the ASL-related design work Dave Lamb is doing and succeeding with.

It's kind of disappointing the negativity around RT is getting in the way for some of the positivity Dave L is bringing to the game. Glass half-empty, or half-full?

If Ray is providing poor customer support, perhaps Dave should consider another vendor for his next product. I recall Dave saying this pack (and possibly others) were already committed to CH, no problem there. No better way to stand by your customers (from Dave's POV) than to make sure it's produced and handled well by the publisher. If people will continue to buy stuff from CH, regardless of the customer service issues, the only leverage that will affect the customer service is the designers selecting other publishers.

Personally, other than impulse buys at tournaments, I'm sticking to the MMP stuff. Mostly because I don't have time or local opponents to play all the stuff I already have...

 

[Tater]

I'm just curious as to how CH! stay's in business just because there seem to be a few people who really dislike them and they make it known as much as possible here, yet CH! still chugs along. Hmmmm, maybe the rest of us just really dont care what the tates, the belchers, the king scotts and one or two others have say, the rest of us enjoy CH! products.

Really, then why do you constantly belabor the point? If it works for you and they "chugs along" why are you so worried about what anyone else thinks?

Seems to me that thou protesteth to much...so what have you heard on the grapevine that's got you so worried?

Anyway, the likely answer is that CH doesn't just rely on sales of ASL comp products. If they did try to go ASL solo I suspect they would close their doors within a year. JMHO...YMMV...SOL...PDQ...NAACP...XYZ...SEC...NCAA...:laugh:

 

[Tater]

The modules/HASLs/scenario packs themselves are not the issue...it's RT and his dishonest business practices that people object to.

And just general dishonesty to boot...

 

[Cpl Uhl]

Hi Brian-

I'm just curious as to how CH! stay's in business just because there seem to be a few people who really dislike them and they make it known as much as possible here, yet CH! still chugs along. Hmmmm, maybe the rest of us just really dont care what the tates, the belchers, the king scotts and one or two others have say, the rest of us enjoy CH! products.


Scott

Well some of us weren't playing ASL back in the, from what I hear, worse old days when CH got the horrible reputation that some on this forum refer to.

I've bought 4 or 5 things from CH and except for a current problem of a few missing scenario cards, I've been satisfied. And from what I hear the last 5 years or so CH's business practices and the quality of their products have improved.

So for those who got burned way back when, stick your sour grapes in the fridge and let it rest. Those of us who give CH our business now will form our own opinions based on our own contemporary experiences.

 

[kcole4001]

I can easily understand how some folks feel about how they were treated in the past.
I'd certainly boycott any business or person who behaved so shabbily.
Vote with your dollars, as they say.

On the other hand, CH seems to have mended their ways in recent years and I'd not hesitate to purchase something that piqued my interest.
I feel safer with HOB, LFT, Fanatic Ent. ,etc since no one feels 'hard done by' in dealing with these TPPs, but I harbor no ill will towards CH.

I was playing ASL during the time frame in question, more than I do now in fact, but I was not aware of the existence of TPP at the time.
-----------------------------------------------------
The point here, is that I don't believe that silencing those who were abused by CH serves any purpose.

Newbies need to know that a company has a somewhat unsavory past, even if present circumstances show CH in a better light.

There has to be some kind of a price for poor behaviour, either socially or commercially, otherwise we condone such antics by default.

 

[Gunner Scott]

I-----------------------------------------------------
The point here, is that I don't believe that silencing those who were abused by CH serves any purpose. .

Ha ha, no one is being silenced, infact, these few individuals seem to make it a habit everytime a CH! type thread comes up, to announce how they were treated. It's like a broken record all the time.


Scott

 

[Whizbang1963]

Ha ha, no one is being silenced, infact, these few individuals seem to make it a habit everytime a CH! type thread comes up, to announce how they were treated. It's like a broken record all the time.


Scott

Ture..but there are those who do the same when it comes to MMP..and probably other TPP as well. The folks voicing opine on CH are more vociferous than some of the other groups. That and the angst goes back a long way.

Some of you whipper snappers don't know how you've got it. You have not lived through the bad old days before all the TPPs were on the scene and it was only MMP and CH and a few others.

YMMV of course

 

[Whizbang1963]

BUt you know we've once again beaten this poor nag to death. Perhaps we should move on to another subject..Bash a different set of companies..find some other topic to debate ad nauseum.

We've done enough SS, CH, IIFT vs IFT for any million people's lifetimes by now. Dontcha think?

 

[Tater]

Ha ha, no one is being silenced, infact, these few individuals seem to make it a habit everytime a CH! type thread comes up, to announce how they were treated. It's like a broken record all the time.

Then why do you insist on bringing it up again and again?

Yeah, I agree...you are a broken record.