Crew Survival Questions

jfardette

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Is the crew survival roll considered a Task Check, and therefore can trigger a sniper?

We played that it could since in real life this is just the kind of thing that might attract a sniper's attention, and the sniper pinned the escaping crew (of course) triggering further questions.

Is the crew still subject to Hazardous Movement as in D 5.6, even after being pinned? A7.8 refers to canceling the effects of FFMO/FFNAM, but not Hazardous Movement.

We played it as the Pin canceled the Hazardous Movement but now that I reread it I could be convinced that we played it wrong. Maybe the real life analogy here would be that they got pinned in a really bad spot, and would thus still be exposed to incoming fire.

Yes, well aware of the dangers of applying 'real life' to this game.
 

volgaG68

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CS is a DR, not a TC, so no sniper activation.

First sentence of A4.62, the Hazardous Movement DRM is no longer actionable upon Pinning.
 

Binchois

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I do not think Crew Survival DRs can trigger a sniper - but where are these DRs referred to as TCs? If they are, then I guess I would reconsider my answer.

As for the pin result, that one has a clear answer:

4.62 HAZARDOUS MOVEMENT: Certain activities are so dangerous that they automatically incur a -2 IFT DRM to any attacks against units so engaged regardless of fire phase until they are pinned (if subject to Pin results).​

ADDED P.S. Rats! volgaG68 beat me to it! Gotta work on my typing speed!!
 

jfardette

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We read A4.62, but D5.6 directly contradicts and says that the Hazardous Movement applies during that phase. We played it right then, but careful reading suggested that since the rule in D5.6 went to the trouble of pointing to the duration of the penalty, instead of just saying that Hazardous Movement applied and leaving it be, it might have been intended to override the cancellation. With the "during that phase" text included, one could just as easily read D5.6 to be an exception to A4.62 as the other way around.

For what it's worth, I agree with you both that a Pin result should always cancel any movement penalties.
 
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Binchois

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I see your point, though I think a pin result must still cancel the Hazardous Movement. D5.6 simply had to state some kind of duration for the effects of Hazardous Movement...

Perhaps a question to Perry if you still have doubts. Or perhaps someone on the forum who knows otherwise can set us straight.

BTW, regarding the idea that higher rule numbers supercede lower ones. While this is technically true (as stated in chapter E), I find that the core chapters (A-D) were developed simultaneously and have had much history behind them. While there are no doubt exceptions, I rarely find cases where a rule in one of these chapters literally contradicts (and thus overrides) an earlier rule without the earlier rule having left an obvious gap, or without an EXCeption being remarked within the earlier rule.
 

tekay44

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CS is not a sniper check, and, a pin immediately cancels the Hazardous Movement penalty.
 

Michael R

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The "during that phase" verbiage is there because some activities cause Hazardous Movement for an entire Player Turn.
 

jfardette

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I see your point, though I think a pin result must still cancel the Hazardous Movement. D5.6 simply had to state some kind of duration for the effects of Hazardous Movement...

Perhaps a question to Perry if you still have doubts. Or perhaps someone on the forum who knows otherwise can set us straight.

BTW, regarding the idea that higher rule numbers supercede lower ones. While this is technically true (as stated in chapter E), I find that the core chapters (A-D) were developed simultaneously and have had much history behind them. While there are no doubt exceptions, I rarely find cases where a rule in one of these chapters literally contradicts (and thus overrides) an earlier rule without the earlier rule having left an obvious gap, or without an EXCeption being remarked within the earlier rule.
No doubts, my opponent and I agreed with you that the intent of the rule is to have a Hazardous Movement condition cancelled by a Pin result, even if the rule in D 5.6 could be a little clearer, and that was how we played it. There is always something to argue about in a game this complex.

I even had an argument with an opponent once who claimed a scenario SSR was invalid because it contradicted a rule in the rule book. It seemed clear to me that the whole purpose of an SSR was to make scenario specific adjustments to the standard rules, but I was unable to point to a rule in the rule book that actually said SSRs take precedence. There's always something.
 

bendizoid

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Yeah, somebody reads the rule a little differently than you and next thing ya know you've been playing it wrong for twenty years.
 
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