Creating ATF maps from JDP's

JamesBailey

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Underdog (Johnnie Ozzie-borne) and I are working on a series of AATF scenarios set in modern day Lebanon (IDF vs Hezbollah). We have some kick *ss 1:50k UTM gridded maps that we have scanned into JPD format (essentially the entire AO from boundary to Litani River). Next step is to convert these JPDs into something AATF can use.

Is there a 'how to' guide out there that explains how JPDs are converted to AATF maps? We will post the JPDs, the AATF maps, and the AATF scenarios all in due time.

(we have got good ideas for some IDF air assault ops against Hezbollah positions on the Litani -- should be a nice addition to the XRAY, Mog city, and 'Ghan scenario sets.)
 

CPangracs

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AFAIK, the map data the ATF engine uses can only be derived from DTED, DEMS, or SRTM data.

What is "JPD" or "JDP"? I've never heard of it and I can't find anything on Google. Are you sure you didn't mean "JPG"?

If so, it can't be done. You need the elevation data from DTED, DEMS, or SRTM files to create the maps.

It's a difficult process that I refuse to do. However, if you give Pat huge amounts of money, he may do it all for you...;)
 

Hub

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JPD is a file format for storing and processing vector data. It is used in applications like XRMAP:

Xrmap is a program running under X that can interactively display portions of the Earth, using the huge CIA World Data Bank II. It features political boundaries, major and minor rivers, glaciers, lakes, canals, etc.A rather comprehensive data set of world cities and locations - about 20000 cities are listed can also be used. Eight projections are implemented, and all features can be interactively set from the GUI.
 

CPangracs

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JPD is a file format for storing and processing vector data. It is used in applications like XRMAP:

Xrmap is a program running under X that can interactively display portions of the Earth, using the huge CIA World Data Bank II. It features political boundaries, major and minor rivers, glaciers, lakes, canals, etc.A rather comprehensive data set of world cities and locations - about 20000 cities are listed can also be used. Eight projections are implemented, and all features can be interactively set from the GUI.
Funny, couldn't find it on a search, but I only checked the first spelling, "JDP", so that figures.

If there is no elevation data, then it won't work in the map creation tool.

Curt
 

Hub

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No, unless there is some other sort of tie - in with height data on it.

On a related note, referring to the Bir Gifgafa AAR - do all the scenarios in TSATC have maps like that?
 

Pat Proctor

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Hub,

Bir Gifgafa is very representative, in map style, of the rest of the game. In face, the ones around the Suez are downright stunning. Curt did an awesome job.

James,

I am not familiar with JDP, but actually, the ATF and AATF Power Toolkits ONLY take USGS DEMS. DTEDs and SRTM data is easily converted to this format. If you can find a program that does the conversion for JDP, then I guess you could use the converted data.

To be used in the power toolkit, a map must have these requirements:

  • USGS DEM format
  • 3 arc-second resolution (often refered to, eroneously as 1:250,000)
  • be exactly 1 degree X 1 degree in size
This is exactly analogous in size and resolution to a DTED Level 1 map, which is why the conversion for that format is so easy.

If the format you are talking about has no elevation data, I am certain that there will be no way to do the conversion.
 

JamesBailey

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sorry, meant JPG.

Sorry, I meant JPG, not JDP. I was worried that it wasn't possible to convert to ATF, but saw the cool TSATC maps and thought maybe...

Anyway, so if I get area in SRTM, convert it to DEM using DrunkenRussian's tutorial available on this forum, I will have an elevation map I can use. How do the terrain features get overlayed onto that map? Could I simply drop my JPG on top of it? (I assume that's how you did it w/ TSATC.)

Attached is example of a piece of my JPG map (the operationally important Litani River bend on the approach to Marjavoun, which the IDF recently fought so hard to take).
 

Pat Proctor

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You CAN use the JPG as a map. Here is a link that describes importing and exporting maps. The trick is just to make sure that your image ...

  • is converted to a BMP
  • the EXACT same size as the BMP export
  • and the corners match exactly
Here is a link explaining the process of exporting and importing a map

http://www.prosimco.com/atf/tutorial/7_advanced_map_drawing.htm
 

JamesBailey

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Pat or Curt or some other Map-Einstein:

OK, I *think* I understand the basic process for making maps in ATF. Could you confirm my basic process is correct before I make the jump and actually start the mapping?

I'm going to:

(1) Get SRTM data of area I'm interested in.
(2) Use the 'Drunk Russian' process described on this forum
(3) This will give me a blank elevation map
(4) with this map, I can overlay my JPG map (after converting to BMP, making sure corners and size are exact match) as described here:
http://www.prosimco.com/atf/tutorial/5_new_map.htm
(5)Not the easiest thing in world, but once I have done it, I hope process gets easier.

Thanks.
 

JamesBailey

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It IS a pain in the ass to make maps for ATF/AATF. They are just so much more detailed than maps in other games.

I can now confirm this statement :nuts:

Question regarding map making and AATF vs. ATF:

Is the process used to build a map - start to finish - in ATF going to change in AATF?

I'm making an investment in learning the mapping process in ATF and was wondering if it will still be useful in AATF.

thanks.
 

Pat Proctor

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NO :)

Much like democracy, it is the worst way, except for every other way.
 

JamesBailey

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Pat-
In DEMCON Header page where it asks for DEM type, UTM zone, x coord, y coord, etc -- do I have to put in the same long. seconds and lat. seconds as I do in the Power Toolkit Map Production Information page? The default in DEMCON appears to be 154800 long. x 115200 lat., which is the same as the Power Toolkit default, which I will change to make map 'real'.
 

Pat Proctor

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If you go to the tutorial about converting DTEDs to DEMs:

http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38959

You will see that, in PETMAR DEMCON program, you just have to select ASCII as the file format for the export, and it should export without prompting. If you are having to enter lat long or coords, you have done something wrong.

You should not be prompted to enter anything, as the SRTM DTED already knows its coordinates, and the DEMCON program can do the conversion to the ASCII text format without any help. I think, if you are being prompted, you may have inadvertantly downloaded the elevation data in the wrong format.

I guess, however, if you don't care about the coordinate system that finally appears in the AATF engine, it doesn't matter. But if you DO care, I would go back to square one and get the data from SRTM in the correct format (DTED level 1 or 3 arcsecond or 100 meter resolution).

If you are talking about the creation of a map from an XDM, described here:

http://www.prosimco.com/atf/tutorial/5_new_map.htm

Then the answer is, it depends. If you want the map to exactly match the paper map, you must figure out an exact UTM grid that matches an exact lat-long coord. If you don't care, then blow it off.
 

Pat Proctor

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BTW, I don't offer this as an excuse, but as an explanation:

I know the map making facility is a pain in the ass. I did not feel comfortable releasing it, but the community, as a whole expressed that they would rather have something buggy than nothing at all. So I cleaned the code up the best I could and released the power toolkit. The problem is that DEM formats are very irregular, and a lot of places deviate wildly from published standards for the format.

All of that having been said, I am sorry you are having trouble, and I will do my best to help you navigate the minefield.
 

JamesBailey

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You will see that, in PETMAR DEMCON program, you just have to select ASCII as the file format for the export, and it should export without prompting. If you are having to enter lat long or coords, you have done something wrong.

You should not be prompted to enter anything, as the SRTM DTED already knows its coordinates, and the DEMCON program can do the conversion to the ASCII text format without any help. I think, if you are being prompted, you may have inadvertantly downloaded the elevation data in the wrong format.
Pat- I'm using the Drunk Russian's steps - they are very good BTW. The DEMCON 'Header' page I'm talking about is here:

http://www.matthanson.org/srtmtutorial/srtmprocess5.JPG

Notice the x & y coords boxes towards bottom of this screen - the screen is a bit foggy, but x = 154800 seconds and y = 115200 seconds. These same coords. appear in the Power Toolkit 'Map Production' page:

http://www.matthanson.org/srtmtutorial/srtmprocess9.JPG

(Both of these websites are from the Drunk Russian's post.)

These coordinates - 154800 x 115200 - appear to be 'defaults' as they appear in Drunk Russian's AND all the maps I have done.

My question is - if I change these on one of the steps so the coordinates match the actual, real world coordinates, do I need to change them on the other step?

Map making is tough, but I am following it fine. Just trying to get the fine details down so my maps are 100% accurate.
 

Pat Proctor

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Yes, if you change the number on the SRTM, it will effect the number in the actual ATF format map. The issue is that your map may not fall at the EXACT lower-left corner of the SRTM data you download. the number in the ATF power toolkit may be slightly GREATER than the number you enter for SRTM data.
 

JamesBailey

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The issue is that your map may not fall at the EXACT lower-left corner of the SRTM data you download.
You aren't kidding there! :laugh: An 8-digit UTM is a 10 square meter box -- its darn hard to hit :crosseye:

the number in the ATF power toolkit may be slightly GREATER than the number you enter for SRTM data.
Why is this? Is it something in converting 3 arc second STRM to 100m DEM? In this context, is there a rule of thumb or something I should keep in mind when attempting to hit my 8-digit UTM?

I'm putting all this stuff down into a 'start to finish' mapping document that I will post to the 'download section' of this website that might help future ATF/AATF mappers -- so all this info you are telling me will have some 'institutional knowledge' :D
 
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