COVID

STAVKA

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Which variant in circulation in this study?
Its not a study, it is
Stats of Central Bureua (SCB), that
keep a tally of how many dies each year,
The average age of death from Covid is 82 and guess what average death of non-Covid is, that's right 82.

But of course, fearmongers cannot be bothered with stats.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Such appeals to emotion were part of the UK's policy discussion paper on how to increase adherence to non-pharmaceutical health measures.

Under the heading "Persuasion" can be found the following in bold type:

The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging.
Pursuing policy by vigorous use of memes. How far we've come from the days of the good old barn-burning Churchillian speech, eh?
 

zgrose

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Its not a study, it is
Stats of Central Bureua (SCB), that
keep a tally of how many dies each year,
The average age of death from Covid is 82 and guess what average death of non-Covid is, that's right 82.

But of course, fearmongers cannot be bothered with stats.
Apparently that's 2-for-2 for inability to read a threaded discussion....
 

zgrose

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H1N1 was hardly in the same ballpark, but sure.
 

BattleSchool

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  • COVID-19 vaccines are not interchangeable. If you received a Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine, you should get the same product for your second shot.
So how come Canadians are being coerced to get whatever vaccine is available for their second shot? The sites won't release info on what vaccine is available on a given day. Not suprising then that I witnessed a number of people leaving vaccination sites because the site didn't offer a Pfizer shot to those whose first shot was Pfizer, for example. Surely these conflicting messages are part of what is fueling mistrust and reluctance to get a second jab. As a result, there has been speculation that the decision to mix vaccines was political. Given the Trudeau government's poor handling of vaccine procurement and a shortage of Pfizer vaccines, the Liberal Party may have sought to bolster its popularity ahead of a fall election by increasing the overall number of fully-vaccinated Canadians by encouraging people to take whichever vaccine was available at the time.

The prospect of vaccine passports further fuels mistrust, by again raising the spectre of politically motivated public health policy.

WSJ 25 Aug. 2021
As countries around the world debate whether mandatory vaccinations would help defeat Covid-19, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is betting they will also help him win re-election.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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God, this thread is still going? Old men will argue about anything.
If you don't think the issue of public assembly is relevant or of interest to ASL players I don't know where you've been the last year and a half.
 

Martin Mayers

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In Sweden death stats:

2001 10.5 died of 1000 Swedes
2002 10.6 died of 1000 Swedes
2003 10.4 died of 1000 Swedes
2004 10.1 died of 1000 Swedes
2005 10.2 died of 1000 Swedes
2006 10.0 died of 1000 Swedes
2007 10.0 died of 1000 Swedes
2008 9.9 died of 1000 Swedes
2009 9.7 died of 1000 Swedes
2010 9.6 died of 1000 Swedes
2011 9.5 died of 1000 Swedes
2012 9.7 died of 1000 Swedes
2013 9.4 died of 1000 Swedes
2014 9.2 died of 1000 Swedes
2015 9.3 died of 1000 Swedes
2016 9.2 died of 1000 Swedes
2017 9.1 died of 1000 Swedes
2018 9.1 died of 1000 Swedes
2019 8.6 died of 1000 Swedes
2020 9.5 died of 1000 Swedes


Example: 2002 10.6 of 1000 Swedes died
Pandemic 2020 9.5 of 1000 Swedes died.
[URLunfurl="true"]https://nyadagbladet.se/analys/pandemioverdrifterna-ar-ett-statistiskt-faktum/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=pandemioverdrifterna-ar-ett-statistiskt-faktum[/URL]
Doesn't population density play a big part in this ???
 

STAVKA

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During the period of the Spanish Flu for 100 years ago (Population was 5 millions less than today), normal death rate per year before the Spanish Flu was about:

15 died of 1000 Swedes pre and post
the Spanish Flu 2-year period.

35 died of 1000 Swedes each pandemic-year, an increase with more than 100%

During the Covid "pandemic" no difference the death toll number of 10 dead per 1000 stay the same and the curve for 2021 follow the same pattern.
 

Martin Mayers

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During the period of the Spanish Flu for 100 years ago (Population was 5 millions less than today), normal death rate per year before the Spanish Flu was about:

15 died of 1000 Swedes pre and post
the Spanish Flu 2-year period.

35 died of 1000 Swedes each pandemic-year, an increase with more than 100%

During the Covid "pandemic" no difference the death toll number of 10 dead per 1000 stay the same and the curve for 2021 follow the same pattern.
Because, if you have a very sparse population density...meh you have a very sparse population density.
 

Vinnie

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Sweden seems to have a fairly low excess death stat only being about 7.7%
So that indicates they've done fairly well, all things considered.
 

aiabx

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So how come Canadians are being coerced to get whatever vaccine is available for their second shot? The sites won't release info on what vaccine is available on a given day. Not suprising then that I witnessed a number of people leaving vaccination sites because the site didn't offer a Pfizer shot to those whose first shot was Pfizer, for example. Surely these conflicting messages are part of what is fueling mistrust and reluctance to get a second jab. As a result, there has been speculation that the decision to mix vaccines was political. Given the Trudeau government's poor handling of vaccine procurement and a shortage of Pfizer vaccines, the Liberal Party may have sought to bolster its popularity ahead of a fall election by increasing the overall number of fully-vaccinated Canadians by encouraging people to take whichever vaccine was available at the time.

The prospect of vaccine passports further fuels mistrust, by again raising the spectre of politically motivated public health policy.
Yesterday, according to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/, 1565 Americans died of COVID. With ~1/8 the population, 29 Canadians died. That leads me to suspect that maybe we're doing something right. The thing about something called a novel coronavirus is that the "novel" means new. So we're learning as we go along what works and what doesn't. And newer evidence indicates that mixed vaccines work fine, and I offer our death rate compared to the US to back up that claim. I'm sure there are articles casting uncertainty and doubt all over the internet, but I'll accept the recommendations of the doctors I know and observe that the people I know who died of COVID had not been vaxxed at the time.

And I've been nagging my MPP and MP for months about vaccine passports. My daughters needed documented vaccination for school, I don't see why can't have them for restaurants. You don't have to get your shots, but I'm fine with people not getting the all benefits of society if they won't shoulder the responsibilities.

(People who believe that it's all fiction anyway and the numbers are lies, feel free to ignore my post).
 

Neal

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If you don't think the issue of public assembly is relevant or of interest to ASL players I don't know where you've been the last year and a half.
Extremely relevant. But this is just a thread of people yelling at clouds. Nothing is going to be resolved, no will will change their mind. It'll just go round and round and round and round, ad infinitum. Which is fine...some people seem to find strange entertainment in that. I don't.
 

BattleSchool

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So... pre-delta I'm guessing.
That was my understanding too. Although I'm not sure that the Delta variant would change much. While Delta is more infectious, it's also less virulent than the original strain, and therefore less likely to result in fatalities.

Had a look at the current stats for Sweden, as of 1 Sept. 2021. If my math is correct, deaths under 20 in Sweden currently number 14, or about 1/1000th of a percent of Covid deaths. Canadian stats for the same cohort, as of 27 August, amount to 6/1000th of a percent, or six times higher than Sweden. However, as a percentage of the population, deaths among this cohort in Sweden are higher. But we're talking about a difference of two fatalities.

I'm not a statistician. But these numbers are so tiny that basing public health policies, such as school closures, on them seems unwise. And keep in mind too, that schools have been closed in most of Canada during much of the pandemic. The opposite has been true in Sweden, certainly for those under 16.
 

BattleSchool

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Yesterday, according to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/, 1565 Americans died of COVID. With ~1/8 the population, 29 Canadians died. That leads me to suspect that maybe we're doing something right.
We might be. But how do you account for these differences? Could the differences be due to a higher prevalence of certain co-morbities among one population? Could a higher number of illegal immigrants account for the rapid spread of the disease in certain areas? Is vaccine reluctance among inner-city black and hispanic populations a factor?

Until someone crunches the data at the end of this pandemic, we've no way to determine whether lockdowns were more effective in the long term, or whether a focused effort would have worked better.

The thing about something called a novel coronavirus is that the "novel" means new. So we're learning as we go along what works and what doesn't. And newer evidence indicates that mixed vaccines work fine, and I offer our death rate compared to the US to back up that claim.
What newer evidence? A news report citing "emerging evidence," or a peer-reviewed, double-blind clinical study? Bear in mind that the vaccines are effectively "experimental." They've not undergone the usual, riguourous trials, trials that can take years to conduct and draw helpful conclusions from. Mixing vaccines, like mixing beer and whiskey, may be perfectly fine for some people, but not for others. The fact that the manufacturers of these vaccines are not libel for any side effects ought to give you pause for thought.

observe that the people I know who died of COVID had not been vaxxed at the time.
That's tragic. Policy makers, however, need to strike a careful balance between protecting the public from one harm without putting the public in danger of another harm. As the current stats show, 64 percent of all deaths attributed to Covid in Canada were of people aged 80 and over. Only 6 percent of fatalites were under the age of 60.

It seems clear to me that we should be focussing our efforts on protecting people over 60, ensuring that they are provided with an opportunity to be vaccinated. If they cannot, or do not wish to be vaccinated, they need to be isolated from the general population until such time as most people have immunity to the disease. It is unrealistic to expect 100 percent of the population to become vaccinated. Nor is it necessarily required. The corona virus is not measles. There is no silver-bullet vaccine that will provide life-time immunity. Some people will continue to die from the disease, just as thousands die each year of the flu virus.

And I've been nagging my MPP and MP for months about vaccine passports.
Vaccine passports are a bad idea. Apart from any efficacy they may have, they are divisive, and will create an underclass. Brave New World!

One day some of those toppling statues, burning buildings, and championing this or that cause today may come to realize that, like many before them, they inflicted horrible suffering on others in the name of some just cause. More probably, they will be despised and condemned by a future mob. Sometimes we need to pause and reflect on the unintended consequences of our actions, noble as they may appear at the time.

My daughters needed documented vaccination for school,
My brother-in-law is in a similar bind. His daughter goes to a private school in Ottawa, but the family lives in Quebec. He's been resisting the pressure to have her vaccinated. Given her age, there is a higher risk from the vaccine than from Covid. (Admittedly the risks are small in both cases.) But in his view, why put his daughter at risk, especially during puberty?

You don't have to get your shots, but I'm fine with people not getting the all benefits of society if they won't shoulder the responsibilities.
Do you really want to go there? So the unvaccinated can't dine out because they haven't shouldered their responsibilities to society?

How about all the chronic addicts and alcoholics who clog our emergency wards on a daily basis? They don't appear to be holding up their end of the societal pact. Not only do they have access to free, tax-payer funded injection sites, but they also have access to medical facilities that many of them will never contribute to in the way of taxes. Perhaps only bonafide taxpayers should have access to hospitals and clinics. The addicts can avail themselves of pop-up street clinics, steps away from the vendors feeding street food to the Great Unvaxxed.

While I'm at it, I may as well address that other elephant out there. My wife is tired of hearing "my body, my choice" when it comes to career women having a second or third abortion at government expense. Why does that argument work for these women, but not for those who don't want to be vaccinated, especially those who've already had Covid? And just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't consider getting vaccinated. I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of compulsion, and the despicable shaming of those who are "pro-choice" when it comes to vaccines.
 
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