Counter set does not provide sufficient number of vehicles w/o extra armament - What's the rule?

von Marwitz

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#1
A scenario card specifies 3x T-26 M33 without any MG armament. The countermix provides only 2 counters of that type, while the others have either a CMG, CMG/RMG, or CMG/RMG/AAMG combo.

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I seem to recall that in such a case, the rules allow the player to freely select any one T-26 M33 variant with extra MG armament. But for the love of God, I can't find the rules reference for it.

All I found is

H1.11 COUNTER LIMITS: Pieces (including vehicles with optional armament) may not be purchased in greater quantity than is provided in one game—unless of course, the players have extra pieces and agree that such can be purchased. Each squad type in one game has 26 pieces (ID letters A-Z). The total number of each SW type in one game is given in the "#" line of its SW Allotment Chart. The total number of each vehicle/ordnance type in one game is given in the "#" column of its listing.

H1.12 OPTIONAL VEHICULAR ARMAMENT: Optional vehicular armament may not be purchased in greater quantity, nor in any different arrangement (in the case of a vehicle with more than one optional weapon) than is provided in the countermix for one game—unless both players agree otherwise. If a player purchases all the vehicles of a particular type (as per that vehicles "#" column—or alternatively, whole multiples of that #), all optional armament carried by them is automatically included although the BPV cost of these weapons must still be paid as per 1.41. [EXC: If the scenario predates the armaments initial date of availability as given in a pertinent Vehicle Note, the vehicle is purchased without that optional armament; use the appropriate "Disabled" counter to show the armament's non-functioning status. The optional U.S. Sherman-mounted FT is also an exception since it is never indicated on the counter; i.e., it is never automatically present regardless of how many Shermans are purchased.]


Both rules don't exactly cover the situation described. Can anyone help me with a rules reference, please?

TIA,
von Marwitz
 

klasmalmstrom

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#2
D1.84:

1.84 OPTIONAL ARMAMENT: Some vehicles have different armament assortments. Procedures for purchasing such added armament in DYO scenarios are provided in H1.41. However, in official scenarios only the armament configuration illustrated in the scenario OB is available unless the number of such vehicles required exceeds the number provided in the game, in which case the excess can be composed of vehicles with optional armament (of the owner’s choice) provided that armament is available within that time frame.

Personally I always play the vehicles as they are depicted on the scenario card - in this case remembering that they have no MG.
 

von Marwitz

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#3
Thanks, Klas, for your quick reply.

Until you have pointed this out some time ago (which I surprisingly remembered...), I played this the same way as you. Since then, I think the situation has not come up in one of my actual playings.

Edit:
Actually, it was JR who pointed this out. I just noticed that when I added this insight to "Ye Olde Blacke Booke of von Marwitz's Quillets" - it was already in there...


It is surely a tidbit worth to remember.


von Marwitz
 
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#6
D1.84:

1.84 OPTIONAL ARMAMENT: Some vehicles have different armament assortments. Procedures for purchasing such added armament in DYO scenarios are provided in H1.41. However, in official scenarios only the armament configuration illustrated in the scenario OB is available unless the number of such vehicles required exceeds the number provided in the game, in which case the excess can be composed of vehicles with optional armament (of the owner’s choice) provided that armament is available within that time frame.

Personally I always play the vehicles as they are depicted on the scenario card - in this case remembering that they have no MG.
The problem is the phrase "exceeds the number provided in the game, in which case the excess can be composed of vehicles with optional armament".

How should that term - provided in the game - be ruled?

For instance many player do not have all modules and should not need to check out what is provided in the game.

Anyhow, I think no scenario designer should base his design on this rule, and instead clearly spell out if a vehicle have optional armament.
 

jrv

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#15
Wow. It was always there in plain sight, but I never bothered what that number meant.

So, for the purpose of D1.84 the "#" column dictates the number of counters in the game.

My mind is now blown.
That column can't be used for D1.84 because it doesn't break down the number by MG armament. For instance the British A13 Mk I has a value of "3" but that represents two MG configurations, two "-/6" and one "-/6/2". The British A13 Mk II has 6 counters and the value 6 in the "#" column, which have four different MG configurations.

JR
 

Brian W

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#16
If you have the total number and have the counters in front of you then you can determine how many are provided with each MG option. The non-optionally armed vehicles start at vehicle A. If you have a total of four vehicles per chapter H, you should have vehicles A, B, C and D. No need to look for E, or e, or AA or aa, or dd, or . . . .

You know, I don't like puzzles. Yet I'm in a profession that involves a lot of them. I wonder how I fell into the profession I'm in. Of course, every job is a kind of paid puzzle solver in a way, although the difference between a forensic accountant and a programer is that one begins with information and reconstructs the goal, while the other starts with a goal and builds information to achieve it.
 
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#17
If you have the total number and have the counters in front of you then you can determine how many are provided with each MG option. The non-optionally armed vehicles start at vehicle A. If you have a total of four vehicles per chapter H, you should have vehicles A, B, C and D. No need to look for E, or e, or AA or aa, or dd, or . . . .

You know, I don't like puzzles. Yet I'm in a profession that involves a lot of them. I wonder how I fell into the profession I'm in. Of course, every job is a kind of paid puzzle solver in a way, although the difference between a forensic accountant and a programer is that one begins with information and reconstructs the goal, while the other starts with a goal and builds information to achieve it.
Yes it is, for purposes of the rule at least.
You now agree that it is not complete, but for the rule itself we should pretend it to be. How did you made that up?