Corregidor: the Rock CG II Questions

Ganjulama

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CG16: There does not seem to be a restriction on the distance between snipers on initial placement. Is there a minimum distance?
Day 2 RG G3 (Mortar Section): Can this RG be purchased for one less CPP if entering via airdrop on CG Day 2? I know there is errata regarding G1 (not allowed), but it would make sense to include G3 for purchase at reduced costs on Day 2.
 

ASLSARGE

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You are correct. There is no minimum distance listed between the two sniper counters at set up. Wanted to do something a little different with this project. I know the "standard" with most HASL's is to initially place them 10, or 20 hexes apart. But somehow they seem to drift close together during play on this small map....at least that is what happens when I play with two snipers per side. The battle reports talk about active sniper activity all over the island throughout the battle. Having both sniper counters close at start seemed an abstract way to depict that. How you place them is up to you. Place them adjacent at set up if you wish. Heck, maybe you get lucky and get two SAN's a couple of DR's apart and get both snipers a chance to whack that 10-2 SMC / stack moving nearby.

Yes, it would seem to make sense for the 81 Mortar Section....but, I decided against it. Might have been a mistake, but we played it that way from early on in the testing. It seemed a lot of the time, by the second day the Japanese response was starting to get serious against additional drops. A lot of equipment was picked up by the defenders....mortars, MG's, zooks, flamers, bang-boxes. Gave the Japanese too many toys. Found in many cases it was simpler and safer to have some of the Day 2 forces enter along the FBE (east) with the paras already on the ground providing a semi-safe passage on board. Para drops on Coors are always a very risky adventure....but that is half the fun. It forces the American player to "think on his feet". The twelve para squads he thought he would have just suffered the loss of five of them do to Light AA Fire and landing injuries. Now what do you do?

When you complete your CG I would like to read any AAR you might post. Always interested in what other folks results are. Enjoy.
 

Ganjulama

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I like that there is no minimum distance between snipers--nice touch. I wish you could drop the mortar section though :(

Tom H. and I are going to play Day 1 on Saturday. My plan is to drop everything in Maggot Valley and try to secure Batteries Hearn, Grubbs, Smith, and Cheney. I would like to secure as much of the west and/or north edge as possible. It all depends on where the T3 Japanese reinforcements enter. I think landing here will allow the chance of being relatively intact.

I looked hard at dropping on the Parade Grounds. I know this is where USA dropped historically but man, there are SO MANY places where you just die before hitting the ground. I did a couple of 'practice' drops and on one of them lost 80% of my total forces just from landing in/next to terrain. Those 2 MCs for landing next to building/rubble/jungle are harsh. Landing next to 2 or 3 of them is death. Also, the Japanese can completely surround this drop zone. The USA could easily be surrounded here with all the bad things this entails in ASL. Rout looked to be exceptionally difficult.

Here is another question: If USA secures an edge other than east is it no longer a friendly edge for the Japanese for the remainder of the CG? It reads that way to me but I thought I would ask just to make sure.
 

ASLSARGE

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I like that there is no minimum distance between snipers--nice touch. I wish you could drop the mortar section though :(

Tom H. and I are going to play Day 1 on Saturday. My plan is to drop everything in Maggot Valley and try to secure Batteries Hearn, Grubbs, Smith, and Cheney. I would like to secure as much of the west and/or north edge as possible. It all depends on where the T3 Japanese reinforcements enter. I think landing here will allow the chance of being relatively intact.

I looked hard at dropping on the Parade Grounds. I know this is where USA dropped historically but man, there are SO MANY places where you just die before hitting the ground. I did a couple of 'practice' drops and on one of them lost 80% of my total forces just from landing in/next to terrain. Those 2 MCs for landing next to building/rubble/jungle are harsh. Landing next to 2 or 3 of them is death. Also, the Japanese can completely surround this drop zone. The USA could easily be surrounded here with all the bad things this entails in ASL. Rout looked to be exceptionally difficult.

Here is another question: If USA secures an edge other than east is it no longer a friendly edge for the Japanese for the remainder of the CG? It reads that way to me but I thought I would ask just to make sure.
re: the initial drop zone. Historically, the Japanese were hiding out from the naval bombardment and aircraft patrolling overhead for the most part. By the time they fully realized a para drop was happening the Americans had secured many of their initial objectives so landing on the Parade Grounds and Golf course was not so bad.....relatively speaking. CtR is a "simulation" of that event.....so pick whatever drop zone works best for you. Maggot Valley is fairly good. Next best would be the area north of the Base Hospital. No area is ideal though. Don't be afraid of selecting a building hex or a jungle hex as your Initial Drop Points....chances are very good you will drift away from them. If your IDP is an open ground hex, well.....chances are good you will land where you do not want to. That was my experience. Losses will happen.
re: FBE - the mission to secure a FBE belongs to the Americans. At start, the Japanese control all four board edges. If the Americans can secure a FBE then yes, the Japanese do lose it for duration of the CG. But....if the Americans are spending a lot of time trying to secure all four board edges instead of playing to their "mission" then that is a big benefit for the Japanese. As the Americans I would get one FBE and pursue your CG Mission. I like the east edge simply because there are several key locations near there and my best chance to take them is early on. If the Japanese have time to reinforce that area, it gets very costly to take those objectives and clear that entire area later on (see CG II Mission). Have fun.
 

Ganjulama

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Just so I'm clear you cannot buy RGs for on map placement until you secure some board edge hexes?
 

ASLSARGE

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This is a sort of "yes, and, no" situation at start.

Under the US RG Chart, Note "a"...it reads "The US Player may use the east board edge as their FBE even if they have not secured that edge yet."

Then, look at CG 17....."Prior to CG Day 4 the American paratroopers are not penalized in any way if they are unable to secure a Friendly Board Edge (usually the east edge) hex when they set up their friendly Perimeter Area(s) and as such are not required to attempt Escape."

The Japanese do control all four map edges at start. By game CG turn 4 the US player will want to seure a FBE hex (east, west, north, south) or be penalized accordingly. At start, the Americans have no real FBE....they must try to secure one ASAP. The east edge is a sort of pseudo FBE through CG turn 3. Hope that helps.
 

Ganjulama

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12.517: Weather will be Clear (roll for wind). 12.5221 says wind force is always a mild breeze from the west. Roll for wind force change/direction change (B25.63-.64) prior to set up, if required. I'm not sure how these 2 rules interact. Do I roll for wind force on the B25.63 table? Or is the wind from the west? Also, wind direction from due West is not possible. Does the wind come from the Southwest or Northwest? Or do you roll that?

12.520: There seems to be no restrictions on setting up fortifications, including Mines and Wire in Front Line locations. Is this correct?
 

ASLSARGE

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Errata - needs to be added I see. First two sentences in 12.5221 should have been deleted. Wind Force and direction in CG II are established in the section under CG II Initial Scenario (page 12) and in 12.517. We missed it...or rather, I missed it in final proofing. Title of section 12.5221 should have any reference to Wind removed. I had initially used the section titles from Red Barricades and other HASL's as a reference in laying out the rules sections for CtR and just missed editing that. I apologize for the confusion.
No restrictions on fort set ups in front line locations. With that being said, while a very strong front line looks impressive, if there is little or no depth and the opponent manages a breach or is able to flank it, that "strong" front line defense has just been rendered a waste of FPP in stopping your opponent. Best fort set up, especially on this small playing area, is in-depth with mutually supported positions centered around the gun batteries and key buildings.

I will notify Rick re: the errata. Thanks for the catch. All the proofers, including me, missed it.
 

Ganjulama

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Errata - needs to be added I see. First two sentences in 12.5221 should have been deleted. Wind Force and direction in CG II are established in the section under CG II Initial Scenario (page 12) and in 12.517. We missed it...or rather, I missed it in final proofing. Title of section 12.5221 should have any reference to Wind removed. I had initially used the section titles from Red Barricades and other HASL's as a reference in laying out the rules sections for CtR and just missed editing that. I apologize for the confusion.
So how do you determine Wind Force on the 12.517 Weather table? 3 of 5 results state 'roll for wind'. Is that the normal WC DR or do you use the B25.63 Wind Force table?

No restrictions on fort set ups in front line locations. With that being said, while a very strong front line looks impressive, if there is little or no depth and the opponent manages a breach or is able to flank it, that "strong" front line defense has just been rendered a waste of FPP in stopping your opponent. Best fort set up, especially on this small playing area, is in-depth with mutually supported positions centered around the gun batteries and key buildings.
At 3 AP factors per FPP you can buy a lot of depth in one day. Japanese can spend 3 CPP for 75 FPP. I would spend 50 FPP and buy 25 hexes of 6AP mines.
 

Ganjulama

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So how do you determine Wind Force on the 12.517 Weather table? 3 of 5 results state 'roll for wind'. Is that the normal WC DR or do you use the B25.63 Wind Force table?
Bumped. Hopefully, this can be answered before Saturday 6/1/19 which is our next scheduled session.
 

rreinesch

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Here's what's going out for errata on the BFP Support page.

Section 12.522 and 12.5221: Section heading should say, “Wind, Night and Unit Setup”. Section 12.5221 should be labeled “Wind/Night” and the first 2 sentences should be deleted and replaced with, “See HBR 1c. After the Initial CG Scenario roll for Wind Change (B25.65, if required) and Weather, as per 12.517 chart. Then roll for EC conditions, as per 12.5171.”
 

Fiedler

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Possibly a stupid Q:

CG 2 initial forces includes O6. It comes ONLY with a shipboard observer? Or does it also come with the 7-0/radio?``

/S
 

Ganjulama

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Possibly a stupid Q:

CG 2 initial forces includes O6. It comes ONLY with a shipboard observer? Or does it also come with the 7-0/radio?``

/S
Shipboard observer. I screwed this up on day 1 and I’ve been punished for it by the ASL gods ever since.
 

Fiedler

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Q1. If the Americans are using direct NOBA fire option (Initial scenario group O6), can the guns malfunction? If not is ACQ gained?

... Yes my troops woe and misery continues. 17 CVP lost in T1a alone. The 200mm guns on ship rolls boxcars on first shot, 1 747, 2 crews and 2 75mm guns are lost as they drifts extremely off map (9 hexes drift is hard to plan for). The remaining force sees 3 squads unbroken, 1 ldr fresh one wounded rest is dead after T1a.

Q2. How many CVPs is a American gun worth if lost by drifting into the sea?

/S
 

Ganjulama

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... Yes my troops woe and misery continues. 17 CVP lost in T1a alone. The 200mm guns on ship rolls boxcars on first shot, 1 747, 2 crews and 2 75mm guns are lost as they drifts extremely off map (9 hexes drift is hard to plan for). The remaining force sees 3 squads unbroken, 1 ldr fresh one wounded rest is dead after T1a.
Wow, what a blood bath. I planned my stick drop points at least 12 hexes away from any board edge.

Q2. How many CVPs is a American gun worth if lost by drifting into the sea?
I'm pretty confident that is is standard CVP value i.e. 2 CVP for gun / 2 CVP for crews.

I saw no value in Direct Fire for NOBA. Seems needless to me except you don't have to draw a card. I would rather draw cards and hammer 8 hexes, especially with 200mm. No harm for red cards since drawing 2 does not cancel NOBA. Also, 6 black and 2 red is a pretty decent deck to draw from.
 

Fiedler

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Wow, what a blood bath. I planned my stick drop points at least 12 hexes away from any board edge.
Yes but with 9-10 hex drift together with 4 hex error on drop point does not help much. Also I dd think the drift would be offset by wind drift in the wind direction but wind 4 hex error is added to the drift direction in addition to the error. Oh the horror! ??. Historic results so far I suppose.

On the other hand I think I was due for some bad luck as I have diced my opponent the last 3 CGs.

/S
 

rreinesch

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Wow, what a blood bath. I planned my stick drop points at least 12 hexes away from any board edge.



I'm pretty confident that is is standard CVP value i.e. 2 CVP for gun / 2 CVP for crews.

I saw no value in Direct Fire for NOBA. Seems needless to me except you don't have to draw a card. I would rather draw cards and hammer 8 hexes, especially with 200mm. No harm for red cards since drawing 2 does not cancel NOBA. Also, 6 black and 2 red is a pretty decent deck to draw from.
Direct Fire NOBA is much more surgical, as it were. Direct Fire NOBA does not malfunction, also no radio contact DR is required if using a shipboard observer, no battery access draw is needed ( you do a DR instead). It has a ROF of 1. So there are definitely some advantages to using it. Yes, you would still get acq normally. Recommend that you use the Direct Fire NOBA player aid to help with its use.
 

Fiedler

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Direct Fire NOBA is much more surgical, as it were. Direct Fire NOBA does not malfunction, also no radio contact DR is required if using a shipboard observer, no battery access draw is needed ( you do a DR instead). It has a ROF of 1. So there are definitely some advantages to using it. Yes, you would still get acq normally. Recommend that you use the Direct Fire NOBA player aid to help with its use.
And Shipboard observer is the only option for 200 NOBA given in the initial CGII forces? NO radio, NO offbd observer?
 
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