Converting SK Scenarios to Full ASL?

[Michael Dorosh]

For a all-armor scenario, I agree. Otherwise, I think there will be other opinions.

Agreed, but my rationale is that if a scenario is balanced in ASLSK which doesn't have them, why throw them in arbitrarily?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Indeed. I fail to see the attraction and motivation for converting SK to full ASL.

I mean, it's not like we don't have enough full ASL scenarios already.

The main attraction of the ASL system is the variability of the scenarios and the ability to depict a diverse array of forces, terrain, weather, victory conditions and unique battlefield conditions via SSR.

In other words, it's not like having potato chips. No one but the severely mentally challenged would sort their chips by colour, size, and weight and then decide they didn't have enough. Most quote-unquote "normal" people just dive into a bag and eat until they're satisfied.

Maybe there are people who do that with ASL scenarios - pull them off the shelf and play them one after another, or in the order they buy them, but everyone I've known usually flips through their scenario books to find something that appeals to them, based on specific parameters uniquely personal to them. Which can change over time or even day to day.

That being the case, there is always the very likely possibility that an ASLSK scenario within those parameters (whatever they happen to be) will be so appealing to an individual that they would want to experience it in ASL.

 

[Larry]

If I only played ASLSK, there are no scens for me set in Voronezh, and few that include GD. Hence a conversion from ASL would be in order.

Converting from ASL makes far more sense than to ASL. We have 90ish SK scenarios and 1200ish ASL scenarios excluding third party.

I am frankly impressed that MMP has turned the SK exploration into something far greater than I expected. At two games a week, it would take almost a year to get through the straight SK. That's a pretty optimistic pace for a person not fully infected with the ASL virus.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Agreed, but my rationale is that if a scenario is balanced in ASLSK which doesn't have them, why throw them in arbitrarily?

Since we are talking about "converting" SK scenarios to ASL - I think introducing SAN # would be the least (or at least very low) of any balance issues. Bypass, concealment, Fire Lanes, etc. would probably be more likely to throw any balance off.

 

[Philippe D.]

Zon with the Wind is an ASL Annual scenario. 88s at Zon is the ASLSK version.

The situation seems to be the same, and the objectives are similar enough, but I played 88s at Zon last year and was surprised that the terrain configuration is so different. IIRC, Zon with the Wind takes place on board 24 (a mostly lvl -1 board), while 88s at Zon takes place on a board where a small hill stands in the middle, allowing for two separate paths with separate LOS.

 

[trailrunner]

The situation seems to be the same, and the objectives are similar enough, but I played 88s at Zon last year and was surprised that the terrain configuration is so different. IIRC, Zon with the Wind takes place on board 24 (a mostly lvl -1 board), while 88s at Zon takes place on a board where a small hill stands in the middle, allowing for two separate paths with separate LOS.

I've played both scenarios within the last month. The terrain for the two scenarios are sort of the inverse of each other. Zon With The Wind has a big depression in the middle of it, but the 88s can be placed near the exit hexes (if desired), or on the main level. There are some buildings in the depression that block some LOSes, which causes tension for both the attacker and defender. In 88s At Zon, there is a hill a little offset from the center, but nevertheless a logical place to place an 88 is near the exit hex. Placing an 88 on the hill can provide some good LOSes, but some are blocked, so again there is that tension of finding the HIP 88. In both scenarios, the Americans need to make it across the short edge of the board, and have to decide whether to attack through the center or through the wings.

 

[Philippe D.]

Yeah, I have the same memory. I played Zon with the Wind several times, and I had the occasion of playing what I had identified as the SK version. I was surprised to see the very different layout, even though the general task is pretty similar.

 

[von Marwitz]

SAN=0 seems reasonable to me

For a all-armor scenario, I agree. Otherwise, I think there will be other opinions.

Oh yes! I hear, the Sniper Labor Union has quite vicious methods to promote the interests of its members...

von Marwitz

 

[Cult.44]

Playing SK scenarios with full rules seems like a good idea to me if you're not too worried about balance. If a player has cut his teeth on SK stuff then get's Beyond Valor and dives into full ASL, at that point he'll only be able to play a fraction of the full ASL scenarios available because of a lack of boards and such. But all the SK scenarios would be playable with full rules.

 

[Tooz]

Just add some reasonable SAN numbers and give it a go.

I would just give the defender a SAN orf 4 and the attacker a SAN of 3. I have done this with a few Elst scenarios and this only had a slight impact on play. I like the mapboards that come with the starter kits and will continue to use these in future scenario designs.

 

[Tooz]

SAN 3 and 2 would be less likely to unbalance the scenario; no quarter is in effect, along with other standard fare. But I agree with the sentiment, we have more really good scenarios that most of us could ever play.

I find that having such low SAN numbers often result in the low SAN 2 side having his sniper eliminated early on during play. Once your opponent has no sniper those "2 up 2" DRs do not seem too crazy.

 

[lightspeed]

Just add some reasonable SAN numbers and give it a go.

This is exactly what my friend Rob and I do. We are more interested in playing than balance.

And since we play ASL, we use bypass, firelanes, prisoners, blah blah blah.

Again, any ASL is better than no ASL.

indy

 

[lightspeed]

The situation seems to be the same, and the objectives are similar enough, but I played 88s at Zon last year and was surprised that the terrain configuration is so different. IIRC, Zon with the Wind takes place on board 24 (a mostly lvl -1 board), while 88s at Zon takes place on a board where a small hill stands in the middle, allowing for two separate paths with separate LOS.

I find it interesting that there are some who ask for historical accuracy, and yet don’t blink an eye at a-historical terrain.

I, for one, don’t care too much about historical accuracy So long as it’s a good scenario.

A friend of mine said he’d never play a Russian-US scenario...but he didn’t have a problem with Korean scenarios.

I think the (well-deserved) love for Hill 621 is a good example of ”good scenario trumping historic accuracy.”

I’ve derailed this conversation enough...I’ll stop.

indy