Congratulations to Le Franc Tireur

Sparky

Senior Member
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
338
Reaction score
273
Country
llUnited States
^ don't forget Italy as well


I have no idea what point you were trying to make. Rice paddies were not a terrain feature in Guadalcanal so naturally a Guadalcanal HASL would not have them.

Rice paddies were a feature in many places where a lot of combat took place, including China, Burma, Luzon, Malaya, [Korea], and elsewhere.
the point.. ahh duh... come on man...the one you were making lol.

HASL maps man and rice paddies upon them and how they are presented.

Sure there are areas all through that part of the world where rice paddies are to be found. Yet how many were where HASL actions, ie major battles, took place. I suppose if there was a point to masturbating all over the monitor it was that. Only one so far for ww2 took place where rice paddies were to be found, Bataan and they had them on the maps, and another if one counts the war in Korea.

Very few of what has been published had them, and if one looks forward to what is known or suspected to be in the works for future HASL only one might have them depending on which aspect of the battle it is focused on. The bitterly opposed landing or the fighting in the interior. That would be Saipan as the landing zone for the 4th Marine Division and its axis of advance into the interior of Saipan went right through the only area of the island that was suitable and used for wet rice production.
 

Pitman

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,104
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
Whatever you are responding to does not seem to be relevant to any point I made.

^ don't forget Italy as well




the point.. ahh duh... come on man...the one you were making lol.

HASL maps man and rice paddies upon them and how they are presented.

Sure there are areas all through that part of the world where rice paddies are to be found. Yet how many were where HASL actions, ie major battles, took place. I suppose if there was a point to masturbating all over the monitor it was that. Only one so far for ww2 took place where rice paddies were to be found, Bataan and they had them on the maps, and another if one counts the war in Korea.

Very few of what has been published had them, and if one looks forward to what is known or suspected to be in the works for future HASL only one might have them depending on which aspect of the battle it is focused on. The bitterly opposed landing or the fighting in the interior. That would be Saipan as the landing zone for the 4th Marine Division and its axis of advance into the interior of Saipan went right through the only area of the island that was suitable and used for wet rice production.
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,733
Reaction score
2,765
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
^ don't forget Italy as well
It's possible the rice paddy rules could be applicable to, say, the swamp areas around Anzio, particularly where the FSSF operated.


The Germans stopped the pumps and opened the dikes, refilling the marsh with brackish water. They were being advised by the German malariologists Erich Martini and Ernst Rodenwaldt that the return of the salt water would encourage the return of Anopheles labranchiae, which thrives in salty environments. The water would also destroy agriculture, removing the essential supplies of food and fresh water from the vicinity, an act that had minimal military effect, but devastated the population. Although it is true that the bog impeded the movement of heavy equipment, the Germans did not flood the marsh for that reason; the equipment under the heavy shelling from some of the largest artillery pieces the Germans had was going nowhere, anyway. The flooding was an act of biological warfare[30] and was opposed by former Italian colleagues of the Germans in malariology, but someone on Kesselring's staff - unknown to this day - issued the order.[31] The allies and the Germans equally, therefore, found themselves fighting in a mosquito-infested bog.
 
Last edited:

Honosbinda

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
954
Reaction score
295
Location
Eastbourne Sussex UK
Country
ll
Speaking of these beautiful maps (and they are), and regarding the rice paddies, I notice the Smith's ridge maps have both grain depictions (yellow) and rice paddy special depictions (light green).

Yet, no mention is made in the Smith's Ridge rules of the grain NOT being treated as rice paddies per W.3. So, why are there grain depictions? Why aren't these shown as rice paddies in light green? There is no explanation of the normal grain depictions on the provided TEC charts.

Are these supposed to be paddy fields as per W1.2 (which are, in turn, ruled NA by SmR3.3)? Or is the grain intended to be grain?

Obviously grain and rice paddies (even those in season) play differently and it's gonna affect these scenarios. Just playing around now with Puller's Pugilists and the terrain immediately before the exit area has both grain terrain and price paddy terrain depictions, see screen shot. I'm tempted to play these as in-season grain as I wind down this scenario, but that would probably be an error... still....

By the way nice to find these maps are now vasl-ized on the LFT website (not yet on VASL.info)


11650
 

djohannsen

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
762
Reaction score
620
Location
Within 800 meters.
Country
llUnited States
no mention is made in the Smith's Ridge rules of the grain NOT being treated as rice paddies per W.3.
I am sitting down with this now and have a similar feeling... I was going to play the grain depictions as paddy fields, assuming that both were included for artistic reasons (but there is still a nagging doubt in my mind).
 

Gordon

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
2,488
Reaction score
2,940
Country
llUnited States
Interesting POVs. Why wouldn't you take the map at its word and assume that grain is grain? These AREN'T Euro-style geoboards being repurposed to represent asian encounters.
 

djohannsen

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
762
Reaction score
620
Location
Within 800 meters.
Country
llUnited States
PTO isn't in effect. It's grain.
First sentence of Smith Ridge Special Rules:
"Unless noted otherwise, Chapter W rules apply."

Also, SmR3 KW Terrain & KW Miscellaneous:
"Except as noted otherwise below, KW Terrain & KW Miscellaneous (W.3-.4) are in effect."

Flipping to Chapter W:
"All grain and rice paddies are Paddy Fields."

Seems clear to me that grain is to be played as Paddy Fields and that the map depiction is for artistic effect (that's the way I'm playing it, but have the smallest nagging doubt).
 

Honosbinda

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
954
Reaction score
295
Location
Eastbourne Sussex UK
Country
ll
Interesting POVs. Why wouldn't you take the map at its word and assume that grain is grain? These AREN'T Euro-style geoboards being repurposed to represent asian encounters.
Map visuals somehow override what's written in the rules?? C'mon.

I wish, then I could consider this to be grain, and not rice paddies. Which is still what I think was intended and got left out. There is no especially compelling artistry for grain and rice paddies to be on the map together.

Obviously, the rules dictate what terrain representations are in ASL. See below:

First sentence of Smith Ridge Special Rules:
"Unless noted otherwise, Chapter W rules apply."

Also, SmR3 KW Terrain & KW Miscellaneous:
"Except as noted otherwise below, KW Terrain & KW Miscellaneous (W.3-.4) are in effect."

Flipping to Chapter W:
"All grain and rice paddies are Paddy Fields."

Seems clear to me that grain is to be played as Paddy Fields and that the map depiction is for artistic effect (that's the way I'm playing it, but have the smallest nagging doubt).
Smith's Ridge Special Rules (SRSR haha) are very clear that chapter W rules apply UNLESS NOTED OTHERWISE. There is no note in the SRSR that grain IS NOT to be treated as rice paddies, and remains grain.

Nice try, though, Gordon!
 

Gordon

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
2,488
Reaction score
2,940
Country
llUnited States
I know that trying to apply common sense to ASL often doesn't make sense. "The rules is the rules" as they say.
 

Honosbinda

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
954
Reaction score
295
Location
Eastbourne Sussex UK
Country
ll
A very complete terrain chart is provided in the module and it shows that 'grain ' is grain and is in season.
nope. Not on the "very complete" Smith's Ridge Terrain charts. Are you looking at some other terrain chart, Lionel???? Or is there something wrong with my copy?
 
Top