Congrats to the Sword and Fire: Manila designers!

boylermaker

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I just got my Sword and Fire HASL, and I'm leafing through it and it looks really cool, but I'd like to congratulate the designers on one thing in specific: Nowhere in this HASL are the Hillock rules used! Well done!

I know that it is considered gauche among CG designers not to add four inconsequential Hillock hexes that force the players to relearn seven pages of rules for zero gameplay benefit, so it must have been hard for you to resist the thrall of joining the cool kids. But on behalf of your players, I thank you!

You managed to avoid hillocks even when connecting an elevated road to ground level, something previously believed to be impossible in a HASL. If Dinant ever gets a second edition, I hope that will take a long hard look at your "Ramps" innovation.
 

hongkongwargamer

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If Dinant ever gets a second edition, I hope that will take a long hard look at your "Ramps" innovation.
Dolan actually went on location to match up every bit of the terrain to the map.

Then again, I am sure you can ignore Hillocks, Wooden Buildings, Hills or Woods etc as long as your opponent agrees. I can't see how anyone can be "forced" to do anything, esp in the "Land of the Free".

Happy Independence Day weekend!
 

boylermaker

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Dolan actually went on location to match up every bit of the terrain to the map.
And it produced a stellar map. But it would be an even more stellar map without the embankment railway hexes: even if you don't like the traditional ASL way of connecting an elevated road to ground level (i.e., you just put them next to each other and don't worry about it), Ramps shows a way that gives you the same flavor with a couple of sentences, not a couple of pages.
 

hongkongwargamer

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And it produced a stellar map. But it would be an even more stellar map without the embankment railway hexes: even if you don't like the traditional ASL way of connecting an elevated road to ground level (i.e., you just put them next to each other and don't worry about it), Ramps shows a way that gives you the same flavor with a couple of sentences, not a couple of pages.
Aye - totally cool if you feel different about Hillock rules than I. Agreed that it's a brilliant map (Nadir Elfarra's great artwork as well)

BTW, I might be missing pages from my RB .. I only have 2 pages of rules for Hillock (F7 & F8), not 7?

How different are the Ramps in S&F from ABTF's R2? (I am waiting for the local retailer) No worries, I see it.
 
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volgaG68

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Hillock rules are NBD.
Agreed.

In a circular fashion, I once had difficulty understanding the EmRR rules due to not fully understanding the Chapter F Hillock rules. The pictorial example in Festung Budapest made me understand the EmRR rules fairly easily, which then made me understand the Hillock rules themselves.
 

King Scott

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Agreed.

In a circular fashion, I once had difficulty understanding the EmRR rules due to not fully understanding the Chapter F Hillock rules. The pictorial example in Festung Budapest made me understand the EmRR rules fairly easily, which then made me understand the Hillock rules themselves.
I also struggled with hillocks at first, until I heard them described as "really thick walls" and it all made sense. (Credit to Matt Romey for that explanation).

Semper Fi!
Scott
 

klasmalmstrom

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Personally I don't think the Hillock rules are all that bad (lost of verbiage, sure, but that was a trait of Chapters F ang G).

What I think should not have been done is say that the Embankment RR are treated as Hillocks....they should, IMO, have gotten their own (simpler) rule.
 

Perry

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Agreed.

In a circular fashion, I once had difficulty understanding the EmRR rules due to not fully understanding the Chapter F Hillock rules. The pictorial example in Festung Budapest made me understand the EmRR rules fairly easily, which then made me understand the Hillock rules themselves.
Thanks to Bill Cirillo for pushing us to make this happen.
 

Perry

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Personally I don't think the Hillock rules are all that bad (lost of verbiage, sure, but that was a trait of Chapters F ang G).

What I think should not have been done is say that the Embankment RR are treated as Hillocks....they should, IMO, have gotten their own (simpler) rule.
In the end, that would have been simpler.
 

boylermaker

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Personally I don't think the Hillock rules are all that bad (lost of verbiage, sure, but that was a trait of Chapters F ang G).

What I think should not have been done is say that the Embankment RR are treated as Hillocks....they should, IMO, have gotten their own (simpler) rule.
I mostly agree with this--almost all of the complexity comes from what happens when stringing LOS to/from higher levels--which I gather comes into play much more from the EmRR side of things than Hillocks proper.
 

klasmalmstrom

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I mostly agree with this--almost all of the complexity comes from what happens when stringing LOS to/from higher levels--which I gather comes into play much more from the EmRR side of things than Hillocks proper.
I think a simple two-three hex EmRR (ala Dinant) isn't so bad. But when we have a long winding one like in Hatten, some LOS becomes a tad odd IMO. Entering/leaving the same long EmRR ("Hillock") multiple times.
 

DougRim

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For VASL users, there seems to be a big of a challenging understanding how to crop the Manila map. There is a thread in the VASL forum and in the MMP forum that covers it but might just as well add it here too.

Even though hexes on the right hand side of the map have names like "4J3", VASL is going to call it JJJJ3; use JJJJ to crop to the row not 4J. Worked when I tried it that way and others report success as well.
 

John Fedoriw

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For VASL users, there seems to be a big of a challenging understanding how to crop the Manila map. There is a thread in the VASL forum and in the MMP forum that covers it but might just as well add it here too.

Even though hexes on the right hand side of the map have names like "4J3", VASL is going to call it JJJJ3; use JJJJ to crop to the row not 4J. Worked when I tried it that way and others report success as well.
Doug that seemed to work for me as well.
 
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