Concealment in VASL - do I get this right?

[Philippe D.]

In a recent game, I had a dummy stack that I could not remove. The thing is, my opponent had prepared the setup file. Now, here is what I understand of how concealment works in VASL - if someone more knowledgeable could confirm, or just explain what I got wrong, that would be great.

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The player who brings a concealment counter into play somehow "owns" it, and from then on the concealment counter is "transparent" for him (meaning, he gets to see whatever lies beneath it), and it's "opaque" for the other player (meaning, anything beneath such a counter is displayed as a "?".

IF the owning player checked the "allow opponent to remove my concealment" preference box, then the concealment can be removed by either player; otherwise, it cannot, and the whole stack under it moves as a unit for the non-owning player.
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Is this correct? It seems to be coherent with my observations.

If so, is there a way for a player to "transfer ownership" of such a concealment counter? It would be useful when, say, in a PBEM game one player forgets to conceal some stack, or, as in my game, when one player prepares a setup file with both OBs and the other player has "?" in his OB.

Also, I noticed that some counters can be considered "concealed" without having a "?" over them. This is somehow nice when splitting a concealed stack (no need to clone the top "?" before moving), but it is sometimes a bit confusing. It might be less confusing if there were no "?" counters in VASL, just concealed and unconcealed units (it might take some getting used to because it would not be the same as in FtF games, and one would still have to count for setup purposes, though). Is there a simple way to make this work? (like, one could have a switch that meant "concealing" counters would only make them concealed without adding a "?" above them)

 

[DougRim]

In a recent game, I had a dummy stack that I could not remove. The thing is, my opponent had prepared the setup file. Now, here is what I understand of how concealment works in VASL - if someone more knowledgeable could confirm, or just explain what I got wrong, that would be great.

================
The player who brings a concealment counter into play somehow "owns" it, and from then on the concealment counter is "transparent" for him (meaning, he gets to see whatever lies beneath it), and it's "opaque" for the other player (meaning, anything beneath such a counter is displayed as a "?".

This is correct.

IF the owning player checked the "allow opponent to remove my concealment" preference box, then the concealment can be removed by either player; otherwise, it cannot,

This is correct

and the whole stack under it moves as a unit for the non-owning player.
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I don't know what you mean by this.

Is this correct? It seems to be coherent with my observations.

If so, is there a way for a player to "transfer ownership" of such a concealment counter? It would be useful when, say, in a PBEM game one player forgets to conceal some stack, or, as in my game, when one player prepares a setup file with both OBs and the other player has "?" in his OB.

No way to transfer ownership. Delete and replace.

Also, I noticed that some counters can be considered "concealed" without having a "?" over them. This is somehow nice when splitting a concealed stack (no need to clone the top "?" before moving), but it is sometimes a bit confusing. It might be less confusing if there were no "?" counters in VASL, just concealed and unconcealed units (it might take some getting used to because it would not be the same as in FtF games, and one would still have to count for setup purposes, though). Is there a simple way to make this work? (like, one could have a switch that meant "concealing" counters would only make them concealed without adding a "?" above them)

What you describe is technically possible. I, personally, would be unwilling to do it for the reasons you cite - alignment with how concealment works in the physical game. If someone else wants to do it . . . .

 

[von Marwitz]

In a recent game, I had a dummy stack that I could not remove. The thing is, my opponent had prepared the setup file. Now, here is what I understand of how concealment works in VASL - if someone more knowledgeable could confirm, or just explain what I got wrong, that would be great.

================
The player who brings a concealment counter into play somehow "owns" it, and from then on the concealment counter is "transparent" for him (meaning, he gets to see whatever lies beneath it), and it's "opaque" for the other player (meaning, anything beneath such a counter is displayed as a "?".

IF the owning player checked the "allow opponent to remove my concealment" preference box, then the concealment can be removed by either player; otherwise, it cannot, and the whole stack under it moves as a unit for the non-owning player.
================

Is this correct? It seems to be coherent with my observations.

If so, is there a way for a player to "transfer ownership" of such a concealment counter? It would be useful when, say, in a PBEM game one player forgets to conceal some stack, or, as in my game, when one player prepares a setup file with both OBs and the other player has "?" in his OB.

Also, I noticed that some counters can be considered "concealed" without having a "?" over them. This is somehow nice when splitting a concealed stack (no need to clone the top "?" before moving), but it is sometimes a bit confusing. It might be less confusing if there were no "?" counters in VASL, just concealed and unconcealed units (it might take some getting used to because it would not be the same as in FtF games, and one would still have to count for setup purposes, though). Is there a simple way to make this work? (like, one could have a switch that meant "concealing" counters would only make them concealed without adding a "?" above them)

You have mentioned that your opponent has created the setup file. My hunch is that the problem originates there.
Have a look at the following picture:



You are the 'German' player, but your opponent has created the VASL file and pulled the counters of your OoB offboard.
He did so in the way shown in the upper line, i.e. he pulled squads and Concealment counters.

What he should have done is to merely pull squads, but not Concealment counters. Instead, I advice pulling a blank counter and then labelling it with the number of Concealment counters the Germans are elegible to for their OoB.

The difference is this:
In case of the 'upper' line, the player who created/pulled the Concealment counters will 'own' then. No other player will be able to see / unconceal anything beneath them [EXC: His VASL password would be identical to that of the 'owning' player or in the Preferences the option is marked that allows the non-owning player to remove Concealment].

In case of the lower line you (the non-creator of the setup file) will have pulled the Concealment counters and thus have ownership, which allows you to see beneath them.


What happened in your case is likely the following:
You placed some German squads and then placed a Concealment counter atop them which was pulled by your opponent. Thus, you can't see your guys beneath any more.

Sometimes this might get really confusing if some Concealment counters pulled by the creator of the setup-file are in the game and some which have been created by yourself later during the game. You can see beneath yours but not his. Imagine some of his Concealment counters initially used as Dummies. During the game, you merge a stack of 'his' Dummies, then you want to split the stack and 'all of a sudden' some of 'your' counters can't be unconcealed any more.


Bottom line:
When creating VASL setup files, NEVER pull any OB-designated Concealment counters. Use a labelled blank counter to represent them instead.


von Marwitz

 

[Philippe D.]

Thanks, that makes perfect sense. Using a blank counter to indicate the number of concealment counters is certainly the right thing to do.

What happened in your case is likely the following:
You placed some German squads and then placed a Concealment counter atop them which was pulled by your opponent. Thus, you can't see your guys beneath any more.

Actually, I used all my "?" for dummy stacks (offboard enemy setup), so I could not see the problem until I tried to remove them (and the opponent could not see any units beneath my "?" either, since they were displayed as "?")

Bottom line:
When creating VASL setup files, NEVER pull any OB-designated Concealment counters. Use a labelled blank counter to represent them instead.

Yeah, that's the perfect advice. Thanks again.