Concealed at Start

Paul John

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 1970
Messages
706
Reaction score
511
Location
Cincinnati Ohio
Country
llUnited States
An SSR sez, 'all MMC setup concealed if in concealment terrain' AND the OB has dummies.
As I recall, the dummies can't ever setup in open ground.
But, can an MMC that is setup in OG be concealed with one of those ? counters given?
 

Jeff Sewall

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Messages
535
Reaction score
152
Location
Pittsburgh
Country
llUnited States
No because it doesn't qualify on either count. It's not in concealment terrain so it can't be concealed by the SSR. It's not in concealment terrain, so the OB-provided concealment counters can't be used. The OB-provided concealment counters can only be used as dummies or to conceal vehicles set up in concealment terrain. This is a common SSR in CG's.
 

Larry

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
5,383
Reaction score
1,736
Location
Guada La Habra
Country
llUnited States
The OOB does not have dummies. The OOB has concealment counters and some of them can be used as dummies but at least one must be used as a concealment counter on top of dummies or on top of a real unit. One concealment counter can be used to cover a real unit that is not in concealment terrain absent an SSR to the contrary - behind a hedge, etc. Obviously those units are real and not dummies but they are concealed.
 

Eagle4ty

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
6,913
Reaction score
5,094
Location
Eau Claire, Wi
Country
llUnited States
The OOB does not have dummies. The OOB has concealment counters and some of them can be used as dummies but at least one must be used as a concealment counter on top of dummies or on top of a real unit. One concealment counter can be used to cover a real unit that is not in concealment terrain absent an SSR to the contrary - behind a hedge, etc. Obviously those units are real and not dummies but they are concealed.
You obviously have more information on the scenario than what was supplied by the Paul John. If the SSR read exactly as he posted, only units in concealment terrain could be concealed. (12.12 PLACEMENT: The player setting up first in a scenario does so out of vision of his opponent, and after setting up his regular units may place only scenario OB-designated "?" at first — but only in Terrain listed in red in the Terrain Chart/Desert Terrain Chart/PTO Terrain Chart.) Only in the case where an SSR states they may set up concealed as if the opposing player were entering from off-board (or actually entering from off-board) and there was no qualifier about being only allowed in concealment terrain (i.e. that listed on the Terrain Chart in RED) would the last part of your reply be accurate.
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
One concealment counter can be used to cover a real unit that is not in concealment terrain absent an SSR to the contrary - behind a hedge, etc.
I am not sure that what you say here is sound. OB-granted "?" counters must be placed in concealment terrain, regardless of whether they are used as dummy counters or as concealment counters [A12.12]. Non-OB concealment counters can be placed in non-concealment terrain (not on OB-granted "?", of course) after all OB setup is complete. That may be what you mean, but I am not sure.

JR
 

Paul John

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 1970
Messages
706
Reaction score
511
Location
Cincinnati Ohio
Country
llUnited States
OB-granted "?" counters must be placed in concealment terrain, regardless of whether they are used as dummy counters or as concealment counters [A12.12].
This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again.
 

Larry

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
5,383
Reaction score
1,736
Location
Guada La Habra
Country
llUnited States
You obviously have more information on the scenario than what was supplied by the Paul John. If the SSR read exactly as he posted, only units in concealment terrain could be concealed. (12.12 PLACEMENT: The player setting up first in a scenario does so out of vision of his opponent, and after setting up his regular units may place only scenario OB-designated "?" at first — but only in Terrain listed in red in the Terrain Chart/Desert Terrain Chart/PTO Terrain Chart.) Only in the case where an SSR states they may set up concealed as if the opposing player were entering from off-board (or actually entering from off-board) and there was no qualifier about being only allowed in concealment terrain (i.e. that listed on the Terrain Chart in RED) would the last part of your reply be accurate.
Hmm. Mark that down as a rule I have clearly broken more than once.
 

WuWei

Elder Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
1,168
Reaction score
915
Location
Germany
First name
Tobias
Country
llGermany
I am not sure that what you say here is sound. OB-granted "?" counters must be placed in concealment terrain, regardless of whether they are used as dummy counters or as concealment counters [A12.12].
You can also opt to not place them at all, or not place all of them - perhaps as part of some complicated mind game you are playing with your opponent.
 

Pyth

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
1,092
Reaction score
287
Location
Brooklyn NY
Country
llUnited States
You can also opt to not place them at all, or not place all of them - perhaps as part of some complicated mind game you are playing with your opponent.
Now a great fool would fire on the first concealed stack that advanced and waste his full-strength firepower on a dummy stack -- but since you know that I am no great fool you would advance your real units first....
10409
 

Paul John

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 1970
Messages
706
Reaction score
511
Location
Cincinnati Ohio
Country
llUnited States
Now a great fool would fire on the first concealed stack that advanced and waste his full-strength firepower on a dummy stack -- but since you know that I am no great fool you would advance your real units first....
View attachment 10409
I tried this mind game recently in a night game. Moved a giant stack under cloak first certain he would wait and they got ruined!~!!?#$?!
 

Gordon

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
2,488
Reaction score
2,940
Country
llUnited States
As I recall, it worked well for Vizzini as well ...
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
I once played a night game where I had two cloaking counters to move, one a dummy. I could have looked at my cloaking chart first, but that would involve work. So I picked one up and moved it forward. My opponent applied Vizzini logic and held his fire. The second one, that one he blasted. That was the dummy.

JR
 
Top