Complex CC with bersekers, vehicles in bypass, cx etc.

[Pyth]

Ok. Help me out with this one please.

This is beginning of CCphase: Building hex contains (all on ground level) Germans: 9-1ldr, 2 467 mmc and a Russian 447 berserker -- not yet in melee
Outside the building in bypass is a German AFV with malf'd CMG. Advancing into the hex is CX'd Russian 447.

So, -- Bypass/not-in-bypass, in-the-house/outside-the-house is all irrelevant, right? All cc participants are in the same location and so subject to attack by/from each other, for CC purposes they might as well all be in the building, right? The berserkers and germans in the house would not have rolled for ambush on their own (beserkers did not advance into the hex) but the CX russian advancing into the hex (he passed his PAATC) changes things, so there's an ambush roll for the entire group now made with DRMs for: vehicle, lax (beserker), Cx, and leader, for cumulative -1 for Germans. After rolling there is no ambush so the entire CC is now sequential (because of vehicle, whether vehicle is attacked or not and allowing that vehicle has no attack) with Russians attacking first.

So how'm I doing? (Because that's not how it went in the actual game and we're trying to correct the situation equitably).

Finally, so berserker will not return to normal until all enemy units in hex are eliminated. What if only berserker and vehicle survive. Presumably Berserker remains berserker, but vehicle is not held in melee. If the vehicle leaves the hex in upcoming Mph that would/would not return berserker to normal? When? -- would vehicle need to leave the Berserkers los? When would berserker return to normal?

 

[bendizoid]

Keep charging, last known location. When then tank starts and the berserker is no longer in melee the berserker gets a CC reaction attack with some pretty good modifiers on the start up MP.

 

[jrv]

The ambush drm are Soviet: +1 Berserk, +1 lax (for berserker), +1 CX for a net +3; Germans: , +2 vehicle, -1 leader for a net +1.

If no ambush was rolled the CC is sequential. The vehicle would be subject to ambush DRM despite there being no ambush because it is in bypass. It would be escorted by any German infantry in the location at the time of the attack.

If the vehicle and the berserk unit are the sole survivors and the vehicle leaves, the berserk unit remains berserk and would charge out of the former CC location if not otherwise engaged.

JR

 

[Pyth]

"The vehicle would be subject to ambush DRM despite there being no ambush because it is in bypass. It would be escorted by any German infantry in the location at the time of the attack."

Thanks JRV.... can you point me to places in the RB for this, I need to reread them as the whole "escort" and bypass ambush thing went right by me.

 

[jrv]

"The vehicle would be subject to ambush DRM despite there being no ambush because it is in bypass. It would be escorted by any German infantry in the location at the time of the attack."

Thanks JRV.... can you point me to places in the RB for this, I need to reread them as the whole "escort" and bypass ambush thing went right by me.

The ambush benefits against bypassing vehicles even without ambush: last sentence of A11.8.

Escorting Personnel: A11.51. Note that this says "personnel" and not infantry, so passengers and riders are also escorting personnel.

 

[Pyth]

Oh -- it's street-fighting rules ambush. I had incorrectly assumed that street-fighting vs bypass only applied to units "already" in the obstacle being bypassed. Advancing into the building in the APh (thru the hexside the AFV occupied in.stationary bypass... that is... tiptoeing past the AFV... ) to turn around and get street-fighting ambush is not particularly intuitive. It's kinda fun though.

 

[jrv]

Street fighting represents situations where infantry can get close to vehicles while in buildings. They wait for an opportunity then dash out to attack the vehicle with grenades & whatnot. While vehicles on streets are vulnerable in this way (because streets are not really 40m wide), vehicles in bypass are also similarly unable to spot danger until the last minute. And although the attack takes place in the CCPh after an Advance during the APh (so it feels like a really short time), it may have happened any time during the two minutes (or however long) the turn represents. It's all very abstract.

JR

 

[volgaG68]

The ambush drm are Soviet: +1 Berserk, +1 lax (for berserker), +1 CX for a net +3; Germans: , +2 vehicle, -1 leader for a net +1.

Would there not also be the +1 BU drm for the German as well? If he didn't mention it being CE, I assumed the default to be BU.

 

[jrv]

Would there not also be the +1 BU drm for the German as well? If he didn't mention it being CE, I assumed the default to be BU.

That's possible. I didn't try to imagine every possible DRM that might have been missed. But for all we know the vehicle may be open-topped in which case the "default" state is CE, although I don't remember any rule defining the default state of a vehicle either, just whether it needed a counter on top or not.

JR