Commissar question

MajorDomo

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A squad in a location with a concealed Commissar suffers a PIN check. The concealed Commissar enables the squad to pass the PTC.

Does the Commissar lose concealment for applying his morale benefit.

Thanks,

Rich
 

klasmalmstrom

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A25.221:
"...An unpinned, unbroken Commissar increases the Morale Level of all other friendly Infantry/Cavalry units in the same Location by one [EXC: Commissars and units with Morale Level of 10], while prohibiting the application of another leader’s DRM to morale activities..."

I would probably not consider this an "action" per se - more of an internal trait of being a Commissar, so I don't think he will lose "?".
 

Honosbinda

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If it were true a commissar would lose his ? for aiding troops, so would any other leader with a leadership modifier for aiding their troops in a pin check.

By the way it's not optional for the commissar to raise the morale, you have to apply the benefit, I believe.

[actually I am wrong about that, case C does cause a leader to lose ? by applying a leader DRM - - been playing that wrong :) heh]
 
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Magpie

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Makes sense to me he would remain hidden, other than a momentary reveal to verify his presence, as he isn't performing an action. Much in the same way a leader can modify a PAATC without losing ?
 

Honosbinda

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Makes sense to me he would remain hidden, other than a momentary reveal to verify his presence, as he isn't performing an action. Much in the same way a leader can modify a PAATC without losing ?
PAATC is a specific exception to Case C on the loss chart, where concealment is not lost by a leader.
 

Honosbinda

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Sure but why was a specific exception made for that ?
I can only speculate. Presumably extorting the troops to fight on under extreme duress is not the same as subtly nodding or shaking one's head prior to attacking an AFV by stealth? The rule is sensible enough.
 

Magpie

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I can only speculate. Presumably extorting the troops to fight on under extreme duress is not the same as subtly nodding or shaking one's head prior to attacking an AFV by stealth? The rule is sensible enough.
Which is exactly why I am suggesting a similar thing would apply to the Commissar.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Sure but why was a specific exception made for that ?
My guess is that since a PAATC may be needed to avoid losing "?" when an enemy AFV enters your Location, it would be somewhat odd that a leader (who is exempt from PAATC) would lose his "?" when he is assiting e.g., a squad with passing its PAATC/keeping-its-concealment.
 

Honosbinda

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Which is exactly why I am suggesting a similar thing would apply to the Commissar.
The nuance is noted.

Frankly the leader rules could use an overhaul/upgrade.

For example, All level 0 DRM leaders are featureless vanilla. None of them ever lose concealment for being a leader in a hex because they don't have a drm so don't use it, although technically I guess they are mandated to use a drm of 0. Not very nuanced in either case.

Some designers often tweak squad characteristics; the latest example is Le Franc Tireur and their upgraded Italians. Fine! I like!

But the leaders are ever the same. BFP tried to motivate us to accept some new leader levels in PiF, like a 7-1, to make things more interesting, but they aren't that much more interesting, because these changes follow the same overall leader model.

Yet, supposedly the game is focused on 'SQUAD LEADERS.' One would think these leaders could be made more interesting than they are.

Some individual leadership characteristic other than leader drm, perhaps defined by drawn cards. For example, this leader has 'extra -1 vs morale checks' or 'an extra -1 in fire attacks' or 'special ability to do bayonet charges'.

I also don't like this ELR mechanism for leaders, when a 7-0 corporal is always promoted to a 6+1 colonel. Why is that charade still maintained throughout the system? Sure, it was worth ONE CHUCKLE when John Hill threw in a 6+1 Colonel Stransky type, but the was idea carried too far.

Just some ideas. Overall, the leader rules are mostly bland. Any features added to these leaders have been based on nationality, not individual distinctions.

Of course this element would unbalance scenarios, but on the other hand might add some spice.
 

Magpie

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"For example, All level 0 DRM leaders are featureless vanilla. None of them ever lose concealment for being a leader in a hex because they don't have a drm so don't use it, although technically I guess they are mandated to use a drm of 0. Not very nuanced in either case. "

I guess the 0 is an indication that they don't run about directing things. They aren't mandated to use their 0 DRM though, the rule only applies to non-0 modifiers.

There is a certain depth to leaders and I think nationality based stuff is fine. I guess you could add in extra things here and there but TBH the game outcome probably isn't worth the time investment.

6+1 being a Colonel has always grated on me. Just make them a crappy leader rather than any particular rank !
 

Sparafucil3

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If you find "0" leaders to be featureless vanilla, I humbly suggest you re-think how you are using them. No attack can be sustained without leaders there policing up the mess, a role I almost always relegate to -0 leaders. They are honestly the work horses of ASL, probably second only to the 8-1. JMO, YMMV. -- jim
 
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