Combat Mission: Campaigns CANCELLED

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,733
Reaction score
2,765
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
I regret that I have had to cancel the development of Combat Mission Campaigns, at least in its present form, and possibly in any form.

What went wrong

CMC was a major undertaking, and I certainly underestimated how long it would take to develop. I was probably way too ambitious. Just building an interface to CMBB was one thing, and a tricky one at that, given that CMBB had not originally been designed with that end in mind. But as well as that there was an engine that enabled 'relative spotting' for each commander, given the reports that he would have access to from his subordinates, including communication delays and so on. I had never seen this done before in a comprehensive way, for any game or simulation, and it caused some considerable complexity.

CMC was designed to be a 'grognard's dream', with every aspect of WWII warfare included at some level. It has a very sophisticated supply model, air forces, weather and 9 different ground conditions with associated (2D!) graphics, artillery support, tactical reserves, entrenchment, etc, etc. There is a ridiculously large code base handling everything from medals to soldier promotions to strategic AI.

The problem is that it took too long to develop, and the core engine proved unstable and difficult to fix. I find myself in the position this New Year of having something that is arguably 99% done, and yet we cannot nail the key bugs which prevent release (and no one wants to release something that is deficient). Just like the same time last year. And the year before that.

There have been some talented people dedicate work to the project, only to leave for a variety of reasons throughout (better career, family tragedy, etc). Each time this happens, on such a small team, it causes disruption and complication in new people coming up to speed. It generally takes some months for them to be at peak productivity.

Unlike most major commercial titles, but similar to CMBB, this was developed on a 'shoestring', without the support of a major backer. That means that it cost me personally the bulk of my life savings and my earnings over the last few years. I have run out of passion for working on it, and money to fund it. Keeping one or several programmers busy simply from the funds I personally earn in the computer industry has been possible, but increasingly painful.

It has been clear for some time that any proceeds from the sale of the game would not meet the expenditure. Nevertheless, I persisted with it because I did not wish to see the effort go to waste, I wanted to provide something entertaining, and I am very, very stubborn.

Work ceased over a month ago now. I already feel better, like the man who stops hitting his head against a wall. Apologies for not releasing news of this earlier, but there are some processes.

Apologies and Thanks

I lend my apologies to the fans who wished to see the kind of campaign system that CMC was intended to provide.

Thanks to the beta testers who helped out, creating maps, campaigns, providing feedback, testing buggy software, etc.

An even greater apology to those who volunteered time and effort to help with manual development or graphics. Especially so, Marco Bergman who personally created THOUSANDS of graphical images covering units, vehicles, interface, etc. I feel badly for someone who has worked so hard voluntarily and does not even see the title released. And there were others.

Battlefront, through Martin and Charles, have put a lot of effort into this game as well, while pushing forward with their other titles.

The Future

As promised, we have made the source code and other assets available for the community. Too much work, sweat and blood was invested by too many people to let it simply vanish. And who knows, maybe there are skilled individuals out there who have the time and energy to take what we have and lead it to a conclusion.

The source code and other files have been uploaded and are available as an open source project from sourceforge.net here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/cmcampaigns

If you are interested to become part of the project, please feel free to join the sourceforge.net project.

There are two important things to note:
- the files are released AS IS. There is a set of documents released and downloadable from sourceforge. That is all the documentation you're going to get. There will be no further support for this project from us.
- all files are released under the GNU GPL Copyleft license. This means that not only are they open source, any derivates based on them have to be open source, too, and may not be commercially exploited. We strongly suggest that you read the GNU GPL 3.0 license text (it's available under the "Documentation" tab on the sourceforge project) to avoid any nasty misunderstandings about this in the future.


If I had ever released the game, I would certainly have dedicated it to those who fell in that terrible conflict, whose suffering puts all our troubles in perspective.

Hunter
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?p=1125504#post1125504

Hunter was a good guy. Moon, who ran the beta team, was a tyrant. I feel bad for Hunting Tank software, but I have no sympathy for battlefront.

Don't feel too bad, either. The graphical interface they are talking about would have been a nightmare in my opinion - the 2D map 3/4 view map was in no way suited to a game of this type. The beta testers argued for a top down actual military map with more suitable interface - maybe NATO style map symbols. There was lip service to examining options for that. The beta version I played just came across as gimmicky.

Redwolf, if you're looking for a project to work on - here's your chance to help someone deserving.
 

Patrocles

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
1,794
Reaction score
6
Location
Chicago, IL
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?p=1125504#post1125504

Hunter was a good guy. Moon, who ran the beta team, was a tyrant. I feel bad for Hunting Tank software, but I have no sympathy for battlefront.

Don't feel too bad, either. The graphical interface they are talking about would have been a nightmare in my opinion - the 2D map 3/4 view map was in no way suited to a game of this type. The beta testers argued for a top down actual military map with more suitable interface - maybe NATO style map symbols. There was lip service to examining options for that. The beta version I played just came across as gimmicky.

Redwolf, if you're looking for a project to work on - here's your chance to help someone deserving.
Oh well, in a way I'm not surprised...the development was going on and on and on...

Too bad BFC didn't tell us they were having problems! damn teasers!
:mad:
 

Redwolf

Member # 3665
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
5,113
Reaction score
43
Location
MA, USA
Country
llUnited States
Well, the OpenSource stuff doesn't have a CMBB to talk to.]

Still interesting.
 

shell-shocked

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
289
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Country
llFinland
Well, the OpenSource stuff doesn't have a CMBB to talk to.]

Still interesting.
OMG. LMAO. I think the person who packed the stuff for SourceForge (project admin account is "moon01") messed up. Or then "Barbarossa-Berlin DBG.exe" is not what it sounds like. Hard to imagine they would include IT on the SourceForge project on purpose.
 

Redwolf

Member # 3665
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
5,113
Reaction score
43
Location
MA, USA
Country
llUnited States
OMG. LMAO. I think the person who packed the stuff for SourceForge (project admin account is "moon01") messed up. Or then "Barbarossa-Berlin DBG.exe" is not what it sounds like. Hard to imagine they would include IT on the SourceForge project on purpose.
No, that's fine. Without the artwork you don't have a CMBB game. The full executable is in all of the freely downloadable patches anyway.

But the thing is, since we cannot make further changes on to of whatever makes this *.exe different from the regular CMBB exe file there is practically no hope to make this work with a CMBB layer.
 

shell-shocked

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
289
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Country
llFinland
No, that's fine. Without the artwork you don't have a CMBB game. The full executable is in all of the freely downloadable patches anyway.

But the thing is, since we cannot make further changes on to of whatever makes this *.exe different from the regular CMBB exe file there is practically no hope to make this work with a CMBB layer.
There are multiple versions of the exe included. It's reasonable to assume DBG stands for debug build. If so, there is tiny but real chance for decompiling it. The person who packed the stuff also included many other applications. With some luck the licenses of those applications will make the license of the Source Forge project void. In essence there is a tiny possibility they just open sourced CMBB.

Aren't the 3D models included in the executable? Only textures and sounds are missing.

I smell a massive **** up begging for a fork.
 

Palantir

Member #86
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
4,877
Reaction score
1,706
Location
The Heartland
Country
llUnited States
Sad news indeed.
Just think if we had this much honesty & straightforwardness from BFC, talk about good customer relations.

Anyone for swapping Steve for Hunter?
 

shell-shocked

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
289
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Country
llFinland
In any case, I doubt those exes are copy protected. Replace sounds and bitmaps with other ones and you have a freeware CMBB.

I'll try it out a bit later.

I haven't followed the scene for some years, but a debug build makes things a lot easier. Have to check out if tools like SoftIce are still around.

I can't believe those morons included apps made by others in those rars.
 

shell-shocked

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
289
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Country
llFinland
CMBB exes are protected. Require CMBB CD. So there's a need for a crack, which is legitimate since it's open source project. :)
 

Redwolf

Member # 3665
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
5,113
Reaction score
43
Location
MA, USA
Country
llUnited States
Who cares about a freeware CMBB? It's like $5. There was a non-cd patch available all the time so if you are willing to acquire the textures and sounds illegally you always could.

In any case, the DBG *.exe files do not contain the source code, debug or not, and even if they did that wouldn't give you the right to just use it like an OpenSource code.
 

Sgt_Kelly

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2002
Messages
296
Reaction score
6
Location
Ghent
Country
llBelgium
From my days as a beta tester I believe it works like this :

When forces meet in CMC and a battle occurs, CMC writes the data for it to an input file and then starts the CMBB exe, which is basically CMBB with the interface bolted on. The input file is read and you play the battle like any normal CMBB game. At the end CMBB shuts down and generates an output file. This output file is then uploaded into CMC.
 

Redwolf

Member # 3665
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
5,113
Reaction score
43
Location
MA, USA
Country
llUnited States
From my days as a beta tester I believe it works like this :

When forces meet in CMC and a battle occurs, CMC writes the data for it to an input file and then starts the CMBB exe, which is basically CMBB with the interface bolted on. The input file is read and you play the battle like any normal CMBB game. At the end CMBB shuts down and generates an output file. This output file is then uploaded into CMC.
That's fine but even if we find documentation on the file format and how to load and write these files, the chance that there are showstopping bugs in the provided CMBB executables is so close to 100% that you'd need a better reason to be optimistic.
 

Redwolf

Member # 3665
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
5,113
Reaction score
43
Location
MA, USA
Country
llUnited States
BTW, WTF is with leaving the .svn dir in the rar files? What a waste of space.
 

shell-shocked

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
289
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Country
llFinland
I'm not suggesting that someone should really make a freeware CMBB. I'm just pointing out that this mess of a release makes it possible. If you release the project under an open source license, then it is open source. Those executables are no different than those Excel files what comes to the license. If you want to keep those exes out of the scope of the license, you should release them separately or specifically deal with it in some "license.txt".

I have a feeling that someone just packaged some folders on his computer, without giving it any further thought. Including stuff like installers for TortoiseSVN and other software on the package is priceless. And then, of course, the CMBB folder has the preferences file and multiplayer games folder has saved games in progress...

Yes, debug executables do not contain source code, but usually they make decompling easier because they leave all kinds of information in the executable. I haven't looked yet, so I have no idea if those really are debug builds, or if they are debug in some other sense.
 

shell-shocked

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
289
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Country
llFinland
That's fine but even if we find documentation on the file format and how to load and write these files, the chance that there are showstopping bugs in the provided CMBB executables is so close to 100% that you'd need a better reason to be optimistic.
CIB File Specs.doc in Docs.rar?
 

Redwolf

Member # 3665
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
5,113
Reaction score
43
Location
MA, USA
Country
llUnited States
I'm not suggesting that someone should really make a freeware CMBB. I'm just pointing out that this mess of a release makes it possible. If you release the project under an open source license, then it is open source. Those executables are no different than those Excel files what comes to the license. If you want to keep those exes out of the scope of the license, you should release them separately or specifically deal with it in some "license.txt".
No matter. If the executable inside the folder that has the GPL in it carries any kind of new license information you can't just take it as GPLed. It's not that easy.

I have a feeling that someone just packaged some folders on his computer, without giving it any further thought. Including stuff like installers for TortoiseSVN and other software on the package is priceless. And then, of course, the CMBB folder has the preferences file and multiplayer games folder has saved games in progress...
The biggest joke is that somebody left in all these .svn folders which contain a copy of the same thing all over again (one of my chief complaints against svn). Talk about a rushed packaging job.

Yes, debug executables do not contain source code, but usually they make decompling easier because they leave all kinds of information in the executable. I haven't looked yet, so I have no idea if those really are debug builds, or if they are debug in some other sense.
"All kinds of information" such as what? Stack frame pointers aren't left out on function calls. Big deal.

And even if you find the source code in there it's of no use due to licensing issues.

Just because this thing was found in a GPLed folder doesn't invalidate a license that might be in the executable.
 

shell-shocked

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
289
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Country
llFinland
No matter. If the executable inside the folder that has the GPL in it carries any kind of new license information you can't just take it as GPLed. It's not that easy.
But they don't carry new license information as far as I can see. File properties has copyright field empty. CMBB's main menu has copyright texts at the bottom, but I think they come from the bitmaps that are not included in the project.

I can't see anything that would state those exes are not part of the GPL license. Am I missing something?
 

shell-shocked

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
289
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Country
llFinland
"- all files are released under the GNU GPL Copyleft license. This means that not only are they open source, any derivates based on them have to be open source, too, and may not be commercially exploited. We strongly suggest that you read the GNU GPL 3.0 license text (it's available under the "Documentation" tab on the sourceforge project) to avoid any nasty misunderstandings about this in the future."

It would also be interesting to see how all the licenses of the stuff that the project uses deal with this. They may allow GPL, they may not allow GPL.
 
Top