CMBN pre-order, tentative release date

Tanker

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I know from reading about German armored operations in Russia that the Germans drove ammo and fuel trucks up to within a few hundred meters of the fighting. The tanks would pull back from the action long enough to resupply. The infantry was probably supplied by bearers.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Oh. Well, I've had far more engaging solo play with that crippled system then I had with the CMx1 model in each of the 3 CMx2 games I've played. Especially when playing solo as a defender. If he has had less satisfying experiences then I have then I suppose it is a matter of "to each their own".
Each system has its advantages; it's probably a discussion on its own. Replayability is certainly one of the prime considerations. My only real concern here is that without "maps on the fly", the solo player is constrained a bit more if he is relying on a QB generator that also relies on 'canned' AI scripts with a limited number of maps. That's presuming a player who enjoys QBs rather than scenarios. But, of course, that is only one kind of player. If the game is popular, I would also presume that we would see a lot of maps generated in short order - and of much more variety than was possible in CM:SF. Not just because of the terrain combinations, but because of what will possibly be a larger fan base.

I feel most comfortable with my NDA speaking to this....

As I see it two things come into play for most changes. One is the proverbial "to do list" that has been spoken about by Steve in all of Combat Mission history and the other part part would be theater. I'm sure there are examples outside of those things that someone will remind me of but most changes in the game engine seem to fall into one of those two categories. I'll give you a coupla/few examples... I had little problem with the lack of FOW trenches in CMSF and even CM:A because in my mind (whether or not it is accurate or not) the technology exists to have the kind of recon that would give either side information about dug in defenses before an attack was always plausible to me. However, that same plausibility didn't fly for me with WW2 era. For that time period it becomes MUCH more important to have FOW for defenses.

On the "to do list" there always seems to be something and Steve often makes remarks about things that "didn't make it in but hopefully they will". Some of the features we are seeing the return of are "to do list" items that have made it into the game. There are are still plenty of things that haven't, like flamethrowers, whose inclusion in the first title aren't necessary so they can be put aside for a bit so other things can be added.

Of course there is the 3rd kind. The one that there was no intention of having in the CMx2 engine but have been added. The blue bar and revised QB unit selection are the 2 biggest examples of those that come to mind. These are the ones added because of demand and/or convenience. QB force selection was clearly one added because player request and a total rethinking of the initial idea. And the blue bar was the result of fixing a totally separate bug and making it easy to implement (people can deny that all they want but what played out behind closed doors is exactly what was explained later in public).

From what I have seen there have been very few of these third type additions. Almost every feature addition falls into the first 2 categories. I don't feel that is talking out of school because it is what was talked about in private for a very long time and then eventually talked about in public. Hell, there are things on that list that have been discussed that haven't been asked for publicly...yet. I'll retell a great example of that that I always associate with you. Ammo bearers. I remember you discussing here that for WW2 the can't do resupply in the same way that they do it in CMSF because the resupply vehicles were not close enough to the battle zones, or something like that. And that what should really be modeled is some type of ammo bearer to resupply. When reading that it had already been implemented in CMBN. I have seen tons of these types of things occur over the past few years.
That seems like a useful enough breakdown of feature addition types. There does on the surface seem to have been much more responsiveness to community discussion, which is a positive. I'm eager to lay hands on the product. The AARs have been a great idea as well.
 

Mad Russian

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I think the premade map issue only comes up if there are just a few maps to choose from. If there are lots of maps to choose from, and they get added to on a regular basis, then that shouldn't be a deterrent.

Good Hunting.

MR
 

dalem

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I agree and don't believe what they say either. Like you, I am convinced they know that they truly believe that the game is mostly played multiplayer and that is why they intentionally crippled solo play (although I'm stil trying to figure out in what way they crippled solo play...I trust you that they did..even though I don't know how...)
Canteloupes.

-dale
 

Geordie

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I think the premade map issue only comes up if there are just a few maps to choose from. If there are lots of maps to choose from, and they get added to on a regular basis, then that shouldn't be a deterrent.

Good Hunting.

MR
Apparently 250+ on release. Should keep QB guys going for a while.

Also regarding ammo bearers, I think this will be an excellent inclusion and may make for some pretty harrowing games as you try and get a bearer within range of your ammo depleted men.
 
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Quellist

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I actually believe that the opposite may be true. From criticism I have seen here and other sites, it seems they have tried to give too many features and maybe spread themselves thin in the process. Whether or not I agree with that assessment, that is one I have seen trotted out plenty. It is one of Drososh's bigger concepts. That they have tried to appeal to too many different types of players in too many ways to the point of not having a true focus. Too use your quote as a base...they are trying to hit too many different 20%'s.
In this case I think it may be two sides of the same coin. They want 80% of the wego customers for 20% work, same for the competitive players and those who just want to tinker solo (who now get a couple of months of equipment rather than a theater in a box) etc.
And they hope that it in the end it sums to a greater customer base.
In line with the quoted example it would be like putting together a whole office suite of 80/20 products. (I'm not arguing that the percentages are 80/20 though, it's just the name of the concept.)

I believe this to be their strategy rather than taking on too much and being stretched too thin, it would look almost the same from the outside though. In the end I do think that a lot of the different categories of players will feel that a lot is missing from their preferred way to play.


Righteous!!!!
Heh, perhaps yesterday, today not so much... :OHNO:
 

junk2drive

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BFC have said that they sold a lot of CMBO, not so much BB and even less AK. I suspect that with the money making module model, a lot of people, casual and grog, will get CMBN just to see it. Addicts will get all the modules, casual will pass on them. Then the next game won't sell as well and the one after that even less, just like CMx1.
 

Michael Dorosh

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BFC have said that they sold a lot of CMBO, not so much BB and even less AK. I suspect that with the money making module model, a lot of people, casual and grog, will get CMBN just to see it. Addicts will get all the modules, casual will pass on them. Then the next game won't sell as well and the one after that even less, just like CMx1.
The planned model for the Eastern Front is even crazier, but time will tell. If they're farming out the work to Russian sub-contractors and doing the modules simultaneously, perhaps it doesn't matter as much. Too far down the road to kvetch about. Or, perhaps they will have some huge draw in each "family" to make them more attractive. We shall see. There are certainly ways to do it. We've even discussed them here. Given the number of features we've talked about...that are now mysteriously in CM:BN...well...:devious:
 

dalem

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The planned model for the Eastern Front is even crazier, but time will tell. If they're farming out the work to Russian sub-contractors and doing the modules simultaneously, perhaps it doesn't matter as much. Too far down the road to kvetch about. Or, perhaps they will have some huge draw in each "family" to make them more attractive. We shall see. There are certainly ways to do it. We've even discussed them here. Given the number of features we've talked about...that are now mysteriously in CM:BN...well...:devious:
If CMN is coming out by June, say, then the next module/family/serving/portion/whatever needs to be out by Xmas to show they can execute their "less in a box but more boxes" model. Until y'all see that it's silly to even consider that crazy schedule Steve claimed for East Front.

-dale
 

Patrocles

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Any rumblings from the great ones (BFC) on meeting the scheduled announced late April release of CM:B4N?
:)
 
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