CMBN Big Guns

[Scott Tortorice]

This appears to be a new vid:

[video=youtube;9MXSl7ckC4M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MXSl7ckC4M[/video]

 

[British Tommy]

I think the explosions throws up too much dust/smoke. Does this get reduced when the conditions are wet?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I think the explosions throws up too much dust/smoke.

What are you basing your opinion on?

 

[Sgt_Kelly]

It also looks to me like the arty has retained its 21st century level accuracy from CMSF.

 

[Elefant]

Yeah, in CMBO I had to wait ages as well. It looks more an AC-130 firing it's 105mm cannon. In the Longest Day that German Sergeant would of been toast.

 

[Geordie]

If I was calling in Arty of that size, theres absolutely no way that I would be that close. Thats not even danger close where that spotter is, thats probably what we would term 'fire on my position' were actually being over run. Or perhaps 'Broken Arrow' has been called.

Also, Im almost certain that in WW2 Naval Gunfire wouldnt be called in in less than a minute, unless it was pre-registered and all you were doing was saying fire now.

Then theres the whole ship moving in the water thing. Even at anchor the ship would move a wee bit, even the guns firing would make it move enough to affect the next round.

All of that means the safe distance from Arty that size would probably be more than a kilometer (not even sure Id feel safe there). Were talking a pretty huge CEP (Circular Error of Probablity), this is where you use pre-calculated tables to see how many shells would fall within the area your firing at.

Lastly, I would say that there isnt enough dust rather than too much. Ive seen even small bombs (500Lb) kick up a heck of a lot of dust.

[video=youtube;eufQxhlUEDU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eufQxhlUEDU[/video]

So an artillery barrage is going to pretty much obscure that village for quite a while.

So from that video I see this:

Naval gunfire response time is far too fast for ww2.
Artillery accuracy for the type used is also far too accurate.
Dust and debris is far too little.

Still, at least we got to see how a typical village looks and compared to CMBO it looks fine.

 

[vulture]

Naval gunfire response time is far too fast for ww2.
Artillery accuracy for the type used is also far too accurate.
Dust and debris is far too little.

Still, at least we got to see how a typical village looks and compared to CMBO it looks fine.

The quality of the graphics was qiute low - I suspect low graphics settings and/or encoding issues though - CM:SF looks much better than that on my computer even without the performance improvements CMBN is meant to have.

The response time doesn't crop up in this video. Notice the ugly blue splurge over the landscape at the start? That means it is the setup phase before the game starts. Artillery missions plotted during the setup phase are considered to be pre-planned and can a) be plotted out of line of sight, and b) can start immediately (or with 5 minute increment delays IIRC).

Agree that accuracy on the target line for fire from a ship several miles away seems implausibly high though.

(Although I would note that the difference in accuracy between british and US howitzers in CMSF was enough to be noticably, particularly on point targets, so the spread of shots does seem to be something that BFC are setting deliberately; whether they have reason to believe that fire control systems on WWII ships were that accurate I have no idea. But it does seem unlikely to me that 10-15 meter accuracy is achievable).

 

[Geordie]

The response time doesn't crop up in this video. Notice the ugly blue splurge over the landscape at the start? That means it is the setup phase before the game starts. Artillery missions plotted during the setup phase are considered to be pre-planned and can a) be plotted out of line of sight, and b) can start immediately (or with 5 minute increment delays IIRC).

Right, didnt realise that and it makes sense now Ive re-watched.

Agree that accuracy on the target line for fire from a ship several miles away seems implausibly high though.

Also, did he set a linear fall of shot? I would also question the ability to do this with a ship as well.

However, I'm just pointing out differences between what I think would happen in real life and in a game.

I have to state right now that I like the way artillery/air is modelled in CM-2, its a much better system though it could do with some time indications in it. But overall its a great improvement and were talking about a game here and not an accurate simulation of Artillery and so I can also live with an approximation.

Learning to play the game mechanics is just as important as learning to play the game!

 

[British Tommy]

What are you basing your opinion on?

The CMx1 games. They didn't throw up half of the stuff seen in the video. Only time I have seen so much dust etc is in a desert battle.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The CMx1 games. They didn't throw up half of the stuff seen in the video. Only time I have seen so much dust etc is in a desert battle.

Dust wasn't coded into CM:BO.

This is a major improvement to the game engine that was introduced in CM:AK.

If you drive down a gravel road here where I live - as I have - you get giant dust clouds. (Period photos of signs with stuff like DUST MEANS DEATH are common.) I understand from first-hand accounts that the problem in the Normandy summer was even more acute, given that most roads there were dirt - not gravel or tarred/paved.

I can only imagine the problem was much worse when hundreds of pounds of high explosive were kicking up dirt and dust and stuff.

The video seems to do a reasonable job of depicting this.

 

[British Tommy]

I should have said I was talking about BB + AK, not BO

Ok, I follow your drift but this should also mean any battles fought during the winter months, there will be no dust thrown up by the artillery.

 

[dalem]

And summer/fall 1944 was very rainy and wet. Mud would be more apporpriate to worry about that dust, I would think.

-dale

 

[Scott Tortorice]

An airstrike vid has also been released:

[video=youtube;Ehg5-hHg7e8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehg5-hHg7e8[/video]

 

[Rule_303]

Not very impressed with that. Why don't the planes strafe along the road?

I also think I heard about 3 different warbird engines even though this was supposed to be P-47s: Merlins, Allisons and the correct Wasp with its distinctive radial "drumbeat".

 

[Sgt_Kelly]

It will do for me.

BFC appear to have learned French, wOOt !

 

[KG_Jag]

Not a very good example--sitting duck convoy; no attempt to evade the attacks; no AA shown. We'll see how it works in the game and hopefully the demo.

 

[dalem]

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Geordie]

Pretty hard to do AA because there is none in the game. There was a conversation at Bf regarding German light AA guns and asking for them to at least counter the fact that the US will have .50 Cal to shred building with etc. The poster wanted light German AA to be available against ground targets.

Anyway, there's no AA in CMBN that shoots at aircraft.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

And summer/fall 1944 was very rainy and wet. Mud would be more apporpriate to worry about that dust, I would think.

-dale

Substitute "as" for "more" and I would agree. To be completely accurate, there were alternating periods of hot weather and rainy weather.

 

[KG_Jag]

Pretty hard to do AA because there is none in the game. There was a conversation at Bf regarding German light AA guns and asking for them to at least counter the fact that the US will have .50 Cal to shred building with etc. The poster wanted light German AA to be available against ground targets.

Anyway, there's no AA in CMBN that shoots at aircraft.

I did not know that about CMBN. That is a major loss of a feature--and a balancing one at that--from CMBO. By CMBB at the latest, even HT's with the capability put up AA fire.

Just for fun and nostalgia, I have gone back to CMBO and the "Against All Odds" Axis campaign (in the form of 6 single games). In Falaise, the second battle battle, I had two AA guns and faced multiple air attacks. My AA guns shot down a plane.