CM Afghanistan

KG_Jag

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What's this all about--as described on the BF forum:

Post # 33

"Sorry for leaving you guys hanging. In our defense, it wasn't our choice to have someone figure this out over the 4th of July holiday weekend So here comes some off-the-cuff responses:

Many months ago we partnered with a Russian developer (not 1C, BTW) whom we have worked with on several other projects. They wanted to make an Afghanistan game for the Russian market. Since the CMx2 engine is designed to be worked on by outside developers *and* almost all of the requirements for this setting already existed *and* it wouldn't interfere with CM:SF and Normandy development... well, it was a no-brainer to do it.

This is not a Module for CM:SF. It is a stand alone Title with completely new forces and a modest number of new features. None of the TO&E in CM:SF is found in this new game, though of course a lot of the hardware is the same. But not everything is familiar to you guys. I'm going to leave it at that for now

There are four forces, two on each side; Soviet and DRA (Democratic Republic of Afghanistan) forces are on one side, Tribal Militias and Islamic Regiments (Mujahideen, as most in the West think of them) are on the other side. In comparison to CM:SF, the Soviet BMP and BTR borne Mech Infantry are the only ones that are relatively familiar to CM:SF players. That is because the Syrian equivalent was based on a slightly newer version of these forces. The rest of the Soviet forces, however, are not similar.

The modest number of new features in Afghanistan are ones which players will get a hold of in Normandy and beyond. The two significant gameplay changes are AAA in ground role and "random" personal weapons variations. By "random" I mean there are defined choices and the game dynamically assigns personal weapons within those parameters. This greatly increases the variety of weaponry found in the hands of any single Tribal Militia and Islamic Regiment unit, which in turn gives them a much less organized feel than the CM:SF Unconventional forces have. You can have anything from a contemporary top-of-the-line full automatic rifle to a surplus WW2 bolt action rifle within the same Squad/Team, then have a different mix of weapons for the next Squad/Team.

The campaigns and scenarios are historically based, thus giving the player a feel for the Afghanistan conflict as it played out. Like everything else in the Afghanistan game, we didn't make these. In fact, most of our beta testers had no idea this game was in development. We tell them almost everything about what is going on, with an emphasis on "almost"

Sooooooooooooo....

The bottom line question I know you have is "if I have CM:SF, will I want to purchase this new Afghanistan game?". Honestly, unless you have a particular interest in the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, or are hankering for some of the new stuff that the game has in it, I'd say the answer is "unlikely". I say that because this is definitely a niche game which appeals to a particular national audience, much the way American Civil War has much stronger appeal to US based gamers and Napoleonics has to Western Europeans. Or, to put it in CMx1 terms, just like many people loved the Western Front and didn't buy into the Eastern Front, or Eastern Front people not buying into Afrika Korps. Which is fine with us since making lowest common denominator games isn't what we are about.

To sum up...

In the end this game was made by Russians for the Russian market. If there are non-Russians outside of the Russian market who want to play this game... great! The more the merrier But if people outside of the targeted demographic aren't interested, no harm done since this hasn't interfered with anything BFC is doing nor will it harm the potential of the Afghanistan game since it wasn't made to please the wider wargaming audience.

We've said all along that CMx2 was designed for parallel and outside development. We weren't joking

Steve"


Post # 38

"Battlefront will release an English version. I'm not sure if the timing of the release will be exactly the same as the Russian version, but it should be close to it. We only have to translate the scenario briefings and the manual sections specific to the Afghanistan theater. Not a small amount of work, of course, but considering how much work has gone into the game itself... it's pretty small potatoes

As stated, this is a stand-alone game. There is no relationship to CM:SF other than *nearly* the same game engine being used for both. Which of course means you can't do things like have current British forces fighting 1970s/80s Soviet or Afghan forces, no more than you'll be able to put Shermans against T-72s once the Normandy game comes out.

Thanks!

Steve"

Link:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=87722&page=4
 

Palantir

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What's this all about--as described on the BF forum:
It means that if the Russian designers put out a better end game product than CM:SF they are screwed! :bite:

This section cracked me up:
Honestly, unless you have a particular interest in the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, or are hankering for some of the new stuff that the game has in it, I'd say the answer is "unlikely".
This is exactly why BFC made CM:BO/BB/AK for all the niche players of CM and they thought it was UNLIKELY anyone playing BO would want their BB game or players buying BB would want their AK??? :crosseye:

And how much more of a "niche" game can you make for a "broader market audience" than a fictional US vs. Syria? I'm still waiting for that popular BFC niche fictional game- CM:Angora vs. Lichtenstein...


But if people outside of the targeted demographic aren't interested...
Steve"
Thats why they're doing an English version because it's unlikely players will want it and they aren't interested in it since it's for "Russians" only...

Do you think all the CM:Afgan scenarios will be on flat boring terrain or maybe- they will have "mountains" and trees and water? The scenarios might even be - competitive!! (all the things CM:SF is not?)

How many backhand slaps did Steve give the CM:Afghanistan version in those comments? :angry:

It is great though that other designers can get their hands on CM and make more games.
I'll be interested to see what comes of it.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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I thought the point of the new game engine was to allow these side-developments to mesh with the new engine?

Wouldn't it have made more sense to make this a module of the existing CM:SF, and allow players to mix and match current U.S. and British from CM:SF forces with tribal militias - if they wanted - to increase the appeal of this and make it both more relevant to the U.S. market and increase flexibility?

I understand what he is saying - we don't have time to work on it, someone else developed it, so we're going to sell it because we need the money. Same thing they did with T-72.

I don't understand this:

But not everything is familiar to you guys. I'm going to leave it at that for now
Is this a Combat Mission game, or not? How was this developed by a Russian company without having access to the code, or apparently even speaking English? It doesn't seem to make any sense. Or did they make an agreement to provide the code to the Russians for this project?

I love this:

Like everything else in the Afghanistan game, we didn't make these. In fact, most of our beta testers had no idea this game was in development. We tell them almost everything about what is going on, with an emphasis on "almost"
I remember when Afrika Korps was first announced. People were actually a little upset at first because it was such a surprise. The fact that Steve states up front it isn't an expenditure of time and resources being drawn away from other CM stuff almost suggests that it actually really is, somehow. But who knows, right? Anyway, perception is always the killer.

How did that conversation go, I wonder. "Hey, I know you beta testers are waiting to start driving Tigers around the map, and we haven't told you much about our plans for Normandy yet, but have we got a surprise for you! A new game on Afghanistan we haven't told anyone about, and the rules are in Cyrillic! Who's up for it!" :D

The reason I got involved with testing CM:SF was because I wanted to be on board for the World War II titles. I know for a fact there were other beta testers who felt the same way - they just wanted to get through the modern stuff, get it out of the way, and be on hand for when the World War II stuff started development. It sounds like the Russian company is doing all the testing and stuff and BFC is just translating it, but does that mean BFC is just putting their name on "other stuff" without testing it?

I thought a tank simulator set in Yugoslavia was obscure - I guess others did too, given that even BFC started selling it at bargain bin prices off their own website.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Wow. The information on the BFC forum didn't come as a result of Steve telling them, it came because someone read about it in a Russian gaming magazine first and posted a question to ask what was going on. Classic Steve. That was how I remember the CM:AK release being handled - like they were almost reluctant to tell their fans what they had planned, and had to be begged for information.
 

Michael Dorosh

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But this does sound like classic CM:SF :laugh:

Unfortunately the article is very vague. It says the ETA is fall of 09. It says there will be 2 campaigns, and 115 new units. The person complained that the balance is weird, in the ambush the tanks just destroyed the abmushers and then the column, when ordered to move forward again, just went every which way. Overall the article is weird and quite negative. I mean I have never red the preview article of a product where reviewer was bashing it. I thought when preview is being done and the magazine gets an exclusive preview version there is at least an attempt to do professional and balanced review and reviewer is not a Diablo fan - in this case the reviewer is..
 

Redwolf

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Will it even have an English version?

I'd like to play classic Soviet forces, but my Russian is somewhat ... nonexisting.
 

Redwolf

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dalem

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Translation:

'Hey guys. We've always intended to let other folks use the CMx2 engine to make games, and now that we did it, seems like we don't really have a good handle on how to deal with it.

So, if you want to take a swing at it, go ahead. But I wouldn't play it.'

Now that's advertising.

-dale
 

Palantir

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After reading the thread it's clear that BFC wanted to spring CM:Afgan as a BIG SURPRISE on the community and it was leaked WAY too early.

Of course it all depended on how well it was done- if it came out poorly it was just a "Russian Only" third party game nobody was interested in anyway. If it came out successfully - WOOT!, WOOT! look what we did!!!

Dalem's basic comment of BFC's- "So, if you want to take a swing at it, go ahead. But I wouldn't play it.'" Came right before all the posters there began saying "I'll buy it!, Sounds great!, When is it coming out?"

If the concept fails: Russian vs. Afgan's, BFC commented they have a solution for that - just play it "Red vs. Red."

So CM:SF plays best Blue vs. Blue & CM:AF best Red vs. Red then you guys can just pretend you're playing the best CM: Blue vs. Red series...

I hope it turns out great so we will soon be getting a regular dose of new CM excitment.
 

dalem

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This is going to end up another big pile of crap and Steve knows it, that's why he's backing away while the doggies yap at his ankles.

Just an attempt to squeeze some blood out of the stone that is CMx2

-dale
 

Redwolf

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In related news, there are huge changes in major league baseball.

Instead of the major league teams playing against each other, which for some reason is considered a too obscure scenario, every major league team plays against local high schools all year. The World Series Winner will be the team that makes it through the year with the fewest injuries.
 

KG_Jag

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From post #54:

"Afghanistan is pretty close to CM:SF 1's format, but it has new terrain in it and that means trying to load it into CM:SF 1 will result in a crash if any of that new stuff is present. The reason for that is CM:SF 1 has no idea how to handle things it wasn't programed to understand.

Oh, and no water or bridges in Afghanistan. We've only got the basic elements of that working right now and haven't yet begun to test the PathingAI, which no doubt has bugs in it since, well, it's untested. Charles writes excellent code on his first pass, but he isn't perfect

Steve"

Link:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=87722&page=6
 

KG_Jag

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In related news, there are huge changes in major league baseball.

Instead of the major league teams playing against each other, which for some reason is considered a too obscure scenario, every major league team plays against local high schools all year. The World Series Winner will be the team that makes it through the year with the fewest injuries.
Yup--I saw your post on this BF thread. Looks like another CM x 2 game best played as an intra-squad contest. If played as designed, it will be even more asymmetrical than the CMSF +/- modules. Still--it will be interesting to see if in the end it is equal to or better than BF's own efforts to date.


One more thing--this news coming out now [which was not the BF plan] will suck a great deal of the air out of the room for the Brit module release.
 

Mustang2.0

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Anyone watch the "awesome dude" video?
just a bunch of BMP's driving around getting blown up.
CM:Afghan? just some red on red scenarios to pay for.
change a few syrian/uncon uniform/vehicle textures, a glorified mod.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Anyone watch the "awesome dude" video?
just a bunch of BMP's driving around getting blown up.
CM:Afghan? just some red on red scenarios to pay for.
change a few syrian/uncon uniform/vehicle textures, a glorified mod.
http://www.snowball.ru/afgan/

That one?

Before they zapped the General Forum, there was a Vietnam veteran that posted regularly. He had been a door gunner on Hueys. He posted about Mel Gibson's movie We Were Soldiers - called it a "pornography of violence." It was a good term. I would use that term to describe the video I just saw. You're right, it is nothing but BMPs getting blown up. Like - what is it supposed to sell? It's a military snuff film, basically. And about as stupid as the CM:SF Video AAR that Moon did where he showed a bunch of stuff gettin' blowed up and thought that it was a marketing tool.

Well - I guess it is, really, since the visuals are the strongest feature of the "game".
 

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As we've all said too many times already, something is wrong at BF. All of their products are way beyond any advertised dates.

Although. I get the feelingn NATO may be just around the corner with the recent posting of some videos. Just around the corner obviously being anything from a week to 6 months....

So even BF are saying that CMA won't be any different from SF except some random weapons? I thought it had water?
 
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Redwolf

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As we've all said too many times already, something is wrong at BF. All of their products are way beyond any advertised dates.

Although. I get the feelingn NATO may be just around the corner with the recent posting of some videos. Just around the corner obviously being anything from a week to 6 months....

So even BF are saying that CMA won't be any different from SF except some random weapons? I thought it had water?
BFC and Matrix must have ganged up on us for a practical joke.
 

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From post #54:

"Oh, and no water or bridges in Afghanistan. We've only got the basic elements of that working right now and haven't yet begun to test the Pathing AI, which no doubt has bugs in it since, well, it's untested. Charles writes excellent code on his first pass, but he isn't perfect

Steve"
Hmm, hopefully this is just for CMA and not CMN. Maybe this is why there's delays and no screen shots of armour rumbling over a bridge? I'm just guessing here because we have very little to work with at the moment.
 

[hirr]Leto

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As we've all said too many times already, something is wrong at BF. All of their products are way beyond any advertised dates.

Although. I get the feelingn NATO may be just around the corner with the recent posting of some videos. Just around the corner obviously being anything from a week to 6 months....

So even BF are saying that CMA won't be any different from SF except some random weapons? I thought it had water?
Absolutely the opposite: something may be right at BFC. Taking their time to ensure that releases are bug free, well produced and with enough content to satisfy sticker price is just plain good business.

We can't bash them for CMSF and then tarnish them again for learning from their mistakes, especially when the only real issue is timing and release dates.

Cheers!

Leto
 
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