Close Combat Question

[Stevedeth]

Guys,

Having a fun time in a scenario but the attackers are 13VP short of victory with only one turn left so this is an important question:

Situation: German 4-6-8 and British 4-5-8 are in Melee. Germans advance a conceled 4-6-8 and an unconcealed 8-1 into the melee location (which will attack together). The Germans want to capture the Brits. At 2:1 +1 capture -1 leader they do capture the Brits. The question is the attack back.

Question: Does the Concealed German retain concelament because the Brit is not Good Order, then loose concealment when it attacks? Or in other words if the Brit attacks the new German with leader is that halved due to attacking a concealed unit?

Thanks

 

[SamB]

Unless you ambush (n/a in this case, since melee existed) I think you lose concealment when you make your CC attack.

 

[Treadhead]

A11.19 says that a "unit loses its concealment in the CCPh only if it makes/directs a CC attack..." therefore in order for the concealed unit to even participate in the attack, it must drop concealment when the attacks are declared and *before* the attacks are resolved.

Thus, the concealed 4-6-8 would lose that concealment if it wishes to participate in any way in the CC (A11.19). In that case the Brit could attack it as unconcealed, regardless of the Germans' attack declaration (Capture Attempt) or the results of the attack (a successful Capture) -- provided of course that Infiltration does not occur.

Regards,
Bruce Bakken

 

[pzkfw5g]

CC should have been simultaneous in this case (no 2 or 12) so the Brit would have have to designate an attack before the dice are thrown. It doesn't sound like this is what happened.

 

[Stevedeth]

"CC should have been simultaneous in this case (no 2 or 12) so the Brit would have have to designate an attack before the dice are thrown. It doesn't sound like this is what happened."

This is kind of what I am getting at. Does the Brit decide to attack the ? unit and leader, or both with any penelty for attacking a concealed unit. The thing is the "looses concealment when an attack is made. I will try the ASOP but still not clear on it.

SD

 

[Treadhead]

Hi, Steve.

The German is the ATTACKER in your example, since the German advanced a Concealed 4-6-8 and a Leader.

The ASOP Step 8.21B says "Declare ... ATTACKER first... all simultaneous CC attacks if no sequential CC exists... Reveal (A12.31) all units declared to be making/directing a CC attack (A11.19)."

A12.31 says that "?" is lost completely for a "reveal". So, by declaring a Capture Attempt, the German 4-6-8 must immediately lose concealment per ASOP Step 8.21B. Then, the DEFENDER may declare any attacks against the (now) un-concealed 4-6-8 if it wants (per A11.12).

By the time you get to ASOP Step 8.24B (resolving sequential CC), all units that are attacking have been revealed before any of the attacks take place.

That's how I see it. Hope this helps...

Regards,
Bruce Bakken

 

[pzkfw5g]

That's how I see it. Hope this helps.

I agree.