Cloaking counter and CX?

[sdennis]

Can a cloaking counter be CX? If so under what conditions?

In Turnscrew all counters can be marked CX to simulate exhaustion from too much attacking, etc. but if this happens can we/do we mark cloaked counters at night CX?

I guess what happens if a cloaking counter does an advance vs. difficult terrain? If it gets marked than I suppose the Turnscrew rule would mark it too?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Advance vs Difficult Terrain, IIRC.

 

[Stewart]

To expand upon this concept.
DUMMY UNITS and actions.
Can a Dummy unit "mantle" a "SW"?

 

[Sparafucil3]

To expand upon this concept.
DUMMY UNITS and actions.
Can a Dummy unit "mantle" a "SW"?

The answer is in the name: Units. We set them up to represent SW etc, but they are Units and now SW. So no can do. -- jim

 

[klasmalmstrom]

A Dummy unit can't possess a SW....

A4.43:
"All SW/Gun counters belong to the first Personnel unit stacked beneath them..."

A9.8:
"A weapon may be converted to an appropriate dm SW counter (or vice versa) by the unit possessing it during any PFPh/DFPh..."

So it has to be a Personnel unit - which a dummy stack is not.

 

[Stewart]

A Dummy unit can't possess a SW....

That's the point, He's not possessing a weapon at all. "mantle"
He announces it. Fair or not?
They can CX,etc...

 

[Actionjick]

To expand upon this concept.
DUMMY UNITS and actions.
Can a Dummy unit "mantle" a "SW"?

The use of mantle as a verb is to cloak or envelop. So I suppose you could say that a Dummy stack on top of an unposessd SW has mantled it.

 

[ScottRomanowski]

Claiming to assemble/disassemble a SW, but actually doing nothing, seems to be against the spirit of this old unofficial Q&A:
"D2.51 May a player make a Mechanical Reliability DR with a Concealed vehicle which is immune to Mechanical Reliability Immobilization/Stalling or a ⅝” Dummy stack, in order to provide misleading information about his OB to his opponent?
A. No. [Kiri Naiman to Avalon Hill, 1990‑1993]"

And I had a secondhand (probably) MacSez along the same spirit: at one game at an Avaloncon my opponent had A-T Mines in his OB. I moved a vehicle and as soon as it crossed into his setup area, he started rolling for A-T Mine attacks. He rolled in each hex I entered. I was marking those hexes with Minefield counters and trailbreaks, and quickly marked more hexes than he had A-T Mine factors, so I asked him to confirm his setup. He said he had to check on something, walked away, and when he came back he told me to remove the counters I had placed. He was making fake A-T Mine attack dr, and he had stepped away to ask if that was legal. He was told it wasn't.

The theme seems to be that you can't say something happened, when it really didn't, just to mislead your opponent.

 

[Actionjick]

Claiming to assemble/disassemble a SW, but actually doing nothing, seems to be against the spirit of this old unofficial Q&A:
"D2.51 May a player make a Mechanical Reliability DR with a Concealed vehicle which is immune to Mechanical Reliability Immobilization/Stalling or a ⅝” Dummy stack, in order to provide misleading information about his OB to his opponent?
A. No. [Kiri Naiman to Avalon Hill, 1990‑1993]"

And I had a secondhand (probably) MacSez along the same spirit: at one game at an Avaloncon my opponent had A-T Mines in his OB. I moved a vehicle and as soon as it crossed into his setup area, he started rolling for A-T Mine attacks. He rolled in each hex I entered. I was marking those hexes with Minefield counters and trailbreaks, and quickly marked more hexes than he had A-T Mine factors, so I asked him to confirm his setup. He said he had to check on something, walked away, and when he came back he told me to remove the counters I had placed. He was making fake A-T Mine attack dr, and he had stepped away to ask if that was legal. He was told it wasn't.

The theme seems to be that you can't say something happened, when it really didn't, just to mislead your opponent.

An artifice contrary to good sportsmanship also IMHO.

 

[Sparafucil3]

That's the point, He's not possessing a weapon at all. "mantle"
He announces it. Fair or not?
They can CX,etc...

A dummy counter represents a unit by rule. Units can't be mantled/dismantled. You can spend MF's / MP's but you can't make fake DR's (for instance a Start Up DR for Mechanical Reliability is verboten).

To answer your question, not fair. -- jm

 

[von Marwitz]

As Jim says: Fake DR's are forbidden.

von Marwitz

 

[Actionjick]

As Jim says: Fake DR's are forbidden.

von Marwitz

Verboten?

Lol Jim beat me to it. Any good German synonyms for verboten?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

As Jim says: Fake DR's are forbidden.

That's why I always shout out "Fake DR" when I roll 8 or more on a DR.

 

[Perry]

Speaking of "fake," I would post these questions from a fake account if I had one, since I don't want to suggest an official position.

Why would I announce I am assembling a SW that my opponent cannot see?
Wouldn't I just assemble it?
When he asks me what I am doing, mightn't I reply "Nothing much"?

 

[Actionjick]

Speaking of "fake," I would post these questions from a fake account if I had one, since I don't want to suggest an official position.

Why would I announce I am assembling a SW that my opponent cannot see?
Wouldn't I just assemble it?
When he asks me what I am doing, mightn't I reply "Nothing much"?

Lol now I'll have to find an ASL Word of the Day for unofficially inspired artificeness.

 

[Actionjick]

Speaking of "fake," I would post these questions from a fake account if I had one, since I don't want to suggest an official position.

Why would I announce I am assembling a SW that my opponent cannot see?
Wouldn't I just assemble it?
When he asks me what I am doing, mightn't I reply "Nothing much"?

Use my account. I could really use the enhancement to my rather poor reputation for rules interpretations.

We could be Allied!!!!!

Fish was The Grofaz. I am The Jick!!

 

[Stewart]

Speaking of "fake," I would post these questions from a fake account if I had one, since I don't want to suggest an official position.

Why would I announce I am assembling a SW that my opponent cannot see?
Wouldn't I just assemble it?
When he asks me what I am doing, mightn't I reply "Nothing much"?

My question is CAN you announce he's "assembling" a SW...
I thought you had to announce to allow LOS to that Loss of ?ment activity.
i.e. can you lie what you are doing in that location?

So, if he says "nothing much" can you draw an LOS assuming he's performing a ?ment loss activity since "nothing much" isn't an EXC in the Table.

 

[Stewart]

Claiming to assemble/disassemble a SW, but actually doing nothing, seems to be against the spirit of this old unofficial Q&A:
"D2.51 May a player make a Mechanical Reliability DR with a Concealed vehicle which is immune to Mechanical Reliability Immobilization/Stalling or a ⅝” Dummy stack, in order to provide misleading information about his OB to his opponent?
A. No. [Kiri Naiman to Avalon Hill, 1990‑1993]"

The theme seems to be that you can't say something happened, when it really didn't, just to mislead your opponent.

Funny that you mention misleading.

Purposely leaving out ?ments from your OB is misleading and goes against the Setup conditions on the Scenario Card.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Purposely leaving out ?ments from your OB is misleading and goes against the Setup conditions on the Scenario Card.

A2.9 Must a player setup all units/concealment/fortifications in his scenario given OB? If Yes, does a player who accidentally leaves off part of his OB immediately forfeit the scenario? If No, are units not setup considered eliminated for CVP? Immediately or at scenario end? Should double CVP for capture be assumed, if allowed by the scenario VC? Would any fortifications not setup which count for VC be considered captured by the other side?

A. No. No. Yes, they would be considered eliminated or captured at option of other player. Immediately. At the option of the other player. Use whatever is most beneficial to the other player when considering non-setup Fortifications, either eliminated or captured.

Must a player set up all units, fortifications and other counters listed in his OB? Do the units not set up count as eliminated for CVP purposes? Do fortifications or counters not set up count as captured/controlled by the opposing side for VC purposes? Must a player inform his opponent of the elimination/capture/control of said units/fortifications/counters when the elimination occurs?

A. No. Eliminated, captured, or controlled at other player’s option. Yes. As soon as it might be material to the VC.

Must a player enter all units and counters (ex: motorcycles/horses) scheduled to enter as reinforcements (assuming no SSR mandating entry as Riders/Cavalry/Mounted, etc.)? Do the units not entered count as eliminated for CVP purposes? Do counters (e.g. motorcycles/bicycles/skis/horses) not entered count as eliminated/captured/controlled by the opposing side for VC purposes?

A. No. Eliminated, captured, or controlled at other player’s option. Yes.

The URL is well known to you by now and I am sure you could easily ctrl+f like the rest of us. I am rarely fooled by someone who adds or removes a concealment counters or portions of their OB. Of course, I play a game based on the principle of "show me", meaning I don't let little stuff like HIP or Concealment counters paralyze me. It's either there or it isn't, and I need to know in any case, so I just get on with it and sort out the damages (and opportunities) later. -- jim

 

[klasmalmstrom]

My question is CAN you announce he's "assembling" a SW...
I thought you had to announce to allow LOS to that Loss of ?ment activity.
i.e. can you lie what you are doing in that location?

Personally I would consider lying about assembling a non-existent SW in a dummy stack (out of LOS) very close to cheating/unsporting (and I use both of those with caution).