Cliff vertex: LOS block or not?

[James Taylor]

See the attached image.

Is the LOS from N3 to R6 blocked by O5?

The rule says:

B11.2 The serrated edge of a cliff is no more of an obstacle to LOS traced along that hexside than the elevation level it separates from the higher hill hex. For LOS purposes, the black art depiction of a Depression cliff is treated as part of the Depression artwork.
​

The LOS is not traced along the hexside, so does that mean the serrated edge of a cliff IS an obstacle to LOS in this case?

Provide reference or Q/A or just let me know "how you play it".

Thanks,

JT
View attachment 49270

 

[SonOfTheNorth]

Wow, that's a good one. I'd say that while the clifside (the serrated edge) is not a hinderance, the existence of the clifside up to the vertex indicates that the upper level (L3?) exists on that vertex, and thus blocks LoS.

So, I'd play it as the LoS is blocked.

Tough one, though.

 

[Steven Pleva]

I've always played that the black artwork doesn't block LOS. I would say that is clear...
Steve

 

[James Taylor]

I've always played that the black artwork doesn't block LOS. I would say that is clear...
Steve

After turning this one over a few different ways, that is the conclusion that Carl Nogueira and I came to as well.

Two things we considered that convinced us:

1) A LOS drawn *nearly* along the cliff hexside, but off to the lower level side would similarly evaluate based on the wording of the rule, i.e. the LOS would not be traced along the hexside but still might cross the cliff artwork. We both felt strongly that the intent is for those LOS to be good.

2) Using the wonders of VASL, Carl removed the cliffs from the boards... Voila' the LOS was clear.

Thanks,

JT

 

[Robin Reeve]

I've always played that the black artwork doesn't block LOS. I would say that is clear...
Steve

Ditto.
Visualize the cliff edge as being the hill colour.

 

[Fort]

I've always played that the black artwork doesn't block LOS. I would say that is clear...
Steve

This.....

 

[Fort]

Ditto.
Visualize the cliff edge as being the hill colour.

The black Cliff artwork should be visualized as the elevation of the lower level artwork that it touches.

 

[jrv]

The black Cliff artwork should be visualized as the elevation of the lower level artwork that it touches.

I thought this until recently. The rule saying that the black cliff artwork is at the lower level only talks about it in the context of gully cliffs. For crest line cliffs the higher level goes to the edge of the hexside. See this thread: http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?120238-Cliffs-and-inherent-terrain.

That said, crest line/cliff is not inherent terrain so if the LOS just touches the vertex, the obstacle will not appear on both sides of the LOS.

JR

 

[von Marwitz]

If the entire hexside of the cliff does not block LOS, it seems illogical that merely a vertex should. So I say LOS is clear.
I always "visualize" the dark cliffside artwork as the foot of the cliff (but of course won't go as far as extending the food of the cliff beyond the hexside).

von Marwitz

 

[Robin Reeve]

B11.2 The serrated edge of a cliff is no more of an obstacle to LOS traced along that hexside than the elevation level it separates from the higher hill hex.

This would inidicate that the "serrated edge" is at the lower level.
The "along the hexside" mention does not imply that otherwise LOS is blocked - as in the OP's example.
But the rule could have been better worded, simply saying that the serrated edge does is no more an obstacle than the lower level it separates the higher hill hex from (with no mention of "along the hexside").